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Subject:
From:
Bob & Liz <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:22:31 -0600
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Hello Dr. Rodriguez & all,
I am only trying to learn about the salts myself but have some experience
and knowledge of copper & animals.
Dr. Rodriguez wrote:
      I have watched (and read) with zeal the continuous outpouring on the
use of copper salts for the treatment of bee mites.  It is admirable to
pursue as many ways to combat these as one might possibly conceive, but
there has to be a reasoned, carefully planed mode of action to prevent
damage
 to the bees and possible injury to consumers of honey.

According to the study which lasted three years and involved up to 3,000
production hives  there were no amounts of salts in the honey removed from
those hives(or so the publiashed text says).

      Copper per se is an essential element for the metabolism of higher
animals.  I have yet to see reports regarding how copper interacts with the
metabolism of honey bees, especially since their anatomy and metabolism is
different from them. Even though large dosages of copper have been
demonstrated not to be toxic to some animals, metallic elements (including
copper) administered in small doses have a tendency to accumulate and
eventually become toxic to those subjected to those small dosages.

The text explains what you have just said in the information sent by the
seller of the salts and agrees with you..

>      I imagine, that it is possible that such small dosages will not have
any effect on honey bees because of their relative short life span. However,
I am seriously concerned about the effects that these small (hormetic)
dosages will do to human beings (especially children and the elderly) who
consume honey with copper residues that may accrue in honey from such
"hormetic" treatments.

With all due respect Dr. Rodriguez I believe you are not understanding the
meaning of the word "hormetic" as used in the text.  Hormetic as used in the
text is used to describe a increase in brood rearing and longevity in the
bees involved in the test.   If true then it would seem that the copper is a
good thing at those doses for the bees.   I am not defending the study only
stating what the text sent to me implies.   Control of varroa is what the
study was about and enough *hormetic* effects were noted between the bees in
the tests and the controls to state hormetic effects.
Copper was found to be benificial in stopping disease in some farm animals
by the U.S.D.A.. I believe from memory Turkeys were getting brain anurisims
and copper salts treatments stopped the problem.
I also have raised salt water fish for over 30 years as a hobby.  I have
worked in a large salt water fish store in Kansas City , Missouri part time
to learn more about the subject years ago when I lived in K.C. and kept bees
in the country..  Copper salts are commonly used to treat many diseases and
parasites of salt water fish. Just enough copper to kill the parasite but
not the fish. Salt water fish are 300 times more sensitive to contaminated
water than fresh water fish. Copper salts are the chemical of choice.
I used to clear parasites from Salt water fish by giving them a fresh water
bath. I would place the fish in a exact same water as they came from only
without the salt.   Leave two minutes and the parasites would exploud of the
fish and die. Longer than two minutes would kill the fish.  Tip for my
fellow salt water friends which still wonder why I dropped out of the Marine
fish picture.
Sincerely,
Bob Harrison
Odessa,Missouri
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