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Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology

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From:
Bill Greenrose <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 29 Jan 2015 08:26:33 -0500
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Eric wrote:

"I don’t speak for all (or even many), but of the beekeepers I regularly talk to, most do not desire to go back to strict package bee operations (although some might, given opportunity). Their, and my, desire for access to package bees from California stems from the cost of replacing livestock after major losses. "

So, on balance, the benefits outweigh the (possible) risks.  Understood.



Charles wrote:


>"If you should read ABC and XYZ  you would find that packages quite often supercede good queens due to lack of brood pheromones.  This was >know in the 1940,  long before internet wizards found it."


Bill: Got it sitting next to my computer.  And, yes, I know that hives are a veritable gym locker of smells.  In the case of the colonies I mentioned that superceded or went queenless (three and three) three had brood initially, and I was able to use the queen cells from the superceding ones for the queenless ones.  So, it wasn't about lack of brood pheromones.


Charles wrote:

>Its always easy to blame queens and others for problems.  But lets deal with reality for a moment.  If you wanted to start beekeeping, and the >only choice was local bees, how many would get started?  The real answer is darn few. 

Bill: Agreed.  Not saying packages aren't a necessity, just questioning the quality of queens these days, following the arguments of Mike Palmer and others, and given my own recent (admittedly not statistically significant) experience.  The quality just seems to be highly variable (and not the same as years ago, when I started and had no trouble introducing packages).


Charles wrote:

>Now what it does for the US,  yup  bee package prices will jump...<edit>.......What would happen in your state, if you were only allowed to get >bees from one place??  

Bill: Again, not about being against free trade, about ensuring quality and value for the dollar spent.


Charles wrote:

>Its not fair or right to try to envoke protectionist issues for nonsensical reasons.  Where would we be without our morning coffee??  Or  some of >that imported honey to add to it??

Bill: When I was a Teamster, I worked in a coffee plant.  After seeing how it was made, well, I became very selective in what I purchased.  Again, not about banning free trade....it's about ensuring quality.


Charles wrote:

>Seems to me guys like MP would be glad to see all those packages headed north,  not saturating the  local drone populations.


Bill: You're probably right.  Personally, I like a lot of what Mike does, because we share a similar climate, and he as been successful.  While I only keep a dozen hives or so to his thousands, I figure that works to my advantage, since he has had to become very efficient in how he and his staff spend their time.  So, the concepts not only work for me to keep colonies going through the winter, they also minimize overall the manual labor required.  BTW, in the past, when I had more time, I successfully overwintered nucs up here, true, five-fame nucs (the polystyrene ones), so one doesn't even have to do the double-decker style, provided enough syrup is fed during the winter (which CAN be a challenge in the snow).  

Due to supplier issues down South (came from Georgia), my packages weren't available until end of May, so they got a very late start and missed most of the spring flow.  Delivery timing is another variable that can be eliminated by raising local stock.  Hopefully, I won't have any more deer vs. fence issues and will be able to get back to raising my own bees this year.  Again, it's not that packages aren't necessary or shouldn't be allowed.  Far from it.  I needed them last year, and was glad I could get them, just not thrilled with what I got.  It's about better quality of the queens that go with those packages.  I know newbies can be very effective at killing bees.  But, I don't remember experiencing the issues I saw last year and that I hear about from others, back when I started in 1996.

Thank you, Charles.  Appreciate the thoughtful response.  Was what I was hoping for.

Bill
Claremont, NH
+43° 21’  -72° 23’ (approx.)

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