Randy wrote (and forgive the lack of quote indicators, I do not see how to do that on the html version of listserv16.  When I hit the reply button there does not seem to be anyway to retain the original message, so I have to cut and paste from the original)

Well, there's our help, Stan.  Could you please ask your son to calc the R
value of honey from White's figure.  Even with Juanse's helpful table, I
still come up with what appears to be an impossibly low figure.
end quote

He says that White`s figure is bogus (or maybe Bogdanov`s use of White`s figure, more likely.  Anyway there is a place in that equation that is 10 to power of tilda, which is unexplained).  So, using Humphrey`s values we get an R value for WARM honey that is R.24 per inch (about the same as glass).   Now that is using 1 divided by K.  Actually for building materials it should be 1 divided by U. The difference is that U includes conduction, convection and radiation, and K is considering conduction only.  

As far as warm vs cold honey:
water is .569 watts per meter K at 0 degrees C
water is .606 watts per meter K at 22 degrees C   

start quote again:

The cluster of bees is surrounded top and sides with honey, with bees
tightly packed in the beespaces.  

end quote

That is probably reasonable insulation.  Because they are tightly packed, convection is quite nearly cut off, yet even tightly packed there is some spaces between the bees.  And isn`t this the conventional wisdom, that the bees are using their own bodies for the majority of their insulation requirement, and heating the cluster and not the hive.  But the outside comb, if empty, might have pretty good insulation, because even convection in the beespace might not greatly disturb the dead air in the cells.

The R value of bees would be difficult to measure (even in the simplest situation of a single apis dorsata comb covered with a uniform layer of about 3 cm of bees or a single apis florea comb, much tinier bees, much gentler too) because the bees are producing heat as well as insulating, but that`s sort of what the finite element analysis of the Humphreys paper does.  My son said the honeycomb pattern is a textbook example of how finite element analysis (different than calculus) can be used. 

He came up with a thermodynamics textbook all prepared to lay a little enlightenment on his old man, but I had to cut it short, as I am a bit frantic preparing to leave for the Philippines.  

Stan

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