From: Peter L Borst <[log in to unmask]>
>Their research *was* published in 2010, but there is no mention of the "dangerous" practice of feeding sugar nor the absence of lactobacilli in winter. Did they forget to put that in?
I'm left scratching my head here. Because they had _some_ related work published, are we to expect that _all_ related work has been published? That all avenues of investigation have been covered?
> A novel flora composed of Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium has recently been identified in the honey stomach of honey bees, A. mellifera. -- Novel lactic acid bacteria inhibiting Paenibacillus larvae in honey bee larvae. Eva Forsgren, Tobias C. Olofsson, Alejandra Vasquez, Ingemar Fries
Remember, the honey stomach (before the work of Tobias and Alejandra), was considered sterile (no bacteria present). There are probably a number of reasons for this, but remember Martha Gilliam looked at this specifically, and found nothing. These LAB are not known to exist anywhere else on the planet other than in the honey stomach of the honey bee. The were never detected before dna analysis was available....likely because they don't grow in a pitri dish easily. Could they be rather delicate? Do we know enough about bacteria (and LAB specifically) to worry that some that thrive at a pH of 3.2-4.5 (honey) might be negatively impacted by feeding them sugar syrup with a pH of 6? Remember, these are the same bacteria found to _perhaps_ keep AFB from breaking out.
>The idea that feeding sugar causes disease in bees was beaten to death over at Bee Source, and it doesn't deserve any credence here.
The fact that feeding sugar affects the microbial culture in the hive in undeniable. The fact that the microbial culture includes several species that cause disease is also undeniable. The assumption that this has only "positive" effects on the bees (or the beekeeper) is absurd. The fact that there are "negative" effects makes it worth discussing.
>On the other hand, Gloria Grandi de Hoffman and Diane Sammataro found a much more serious connection between fungicides and gut flora:
I agree...we've been talking about fungicies since 2008! At our recent conference, Bill Petch pointed out that bookbinders keep thymol crystals on hand. One crystal into a pot of paste completely prevents mold growth...not using the thymol virtually guaranteed mold growth (can you say, "Thymol is a fungicide that beekeepers feel safe putting in their hives").
Formic acid (and I bet oxcalic acid as well) have strong fungicidal properties....yet these are safe to use inside the hive?
Ramona found some studies from a few years ago (I think done in Poland). They looked at fungicides, and determined that many of those that were applied as "topical" actually became "systemic"...even some organic fungicides.
I do think fungicides are the unknown overriding problem in agriculture...and I can't think of a good reason to use them in the hive.
Here are some questions we asked in 2008:
• Has anyone studied the effects of various formic acid treatments (on-label and off-label) on pollen and beebread fermentation inside the hive?
• What are the effects of other treatments on pollen and beebread fermentation inside the hive, both alone and in combination?
• What are the effects on pollen fermentation from other agricultural chemicals coming from the environment?
• Is beebread ever tested for levels of fermentation and active yeast cultures?
• Is beebread pulverized before being analyzed in the lab? (It occurs to us that unfermented pulverized beebread might look similar in analysis to pulverized fermented beebread in the lab, but that the two might have very different nutritional yields to the honeybee in the hive).
• It is understood that various microorganisms have differing tolerances to acids,alcohol, and other toxins. What are the traits of microorganisms that are involved in the fermentation of pollen? What of the microorganisms involved in other processes within the hive?
deknow
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