Hello All,

> The above sounds like a description of CCD yet the above is
> Dr. Caron's description of PMS. Hmmm.
Jim said:
No, that does not sound like CCD at all.

 not at all?

I think the description fits except for the brood problems. The spotty brood
etc. only are seen in the late stage of virus issues(Dr. Shiminuki).

 I killed a hive today and brought in for examination tomorrow. The bees had
CBPV. None of the bees could fly. The hive was a top hive nine days ago.
40,000 plus bees. Once the brood boxes were removed the floor of the hive
was filled with dying bees. Unable to fly. Looked like worms in a ball. I
placed a huge number of dying bees in a screened box on the truck as I went
on too other yards. All were dead by the end of the day. Hopefully this was
an
isolated case. Tomorrow I will remove each pupa and check for varroa to try
and see if the varroa treatment (already completed) had somehow failed.

When virus is associated with varroa the name PMS fits.Once done I plan to
burn the frames and sterilize the woodenware. If I had hundreds of these
frames I would sterilize but only 18 I will toss in burn barrel.

Also the virus "Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus" although unknown to me uses
the wording "acute paralysis" so I can only assume the description fits the
several other* named*  paralysis virus. If so then the bees are unable to
fly
and if were a possible cause of CCD then the bees would be found in the hive
or in front of the hive. Bailey, Shiminuki and others ALL agree that bees
with acute paralysis virus in the stage symptoms are observed CAN NOT FLY!
So please tell me how they could disappear?

>Cases of CCD have a high occurrence of large and healthy
brood areas.

Many which claimed their loss from CCD did not report large areas of brood
left but rather missing bees with small areas of brood.(personal
conversation.)

As I said before I have seen hundreds of hives ( I started beekeeping in the
fifties )which fit the *EXACT* ccd description in which the adult bees flew
out to forage and were killed by pesticides.
Two types of pesticide kill:
1. bees fly out and die and only brood remains.(common with this type of
kill)

2. bees return to die or die from the contaminated pollen and are tossed out
the entrance by the bees.( this description is the type I see the most.)


>We all "got it" a long time ago.
Those who didn't aren't beekeepers any more.

Many of the beekeepers reporting CCD did have varroa issues.(personal
conversation with the two of largest beekeepers reporting)

 last year was the first use for many of thymol or formic acid. Both are a
big step down from chemical strips.

 To put it bluntly.

 Thymol needs three correctly timed treatments ( my research) and one size
does not always work with formic acid. My long time association with
Mitegone and Bill R. has shown that the amount of formic needed to control
varroa needs tested on a few hives and then the amount ( on pads) decided on
to treat the yard. Bill R. found when he advised beekeepers in different
countries on formic acid different amounts of formic were needed and one
amount on a pad did not always provide control although both formic and
thymol will drop mites (as will citrus leaves and tobacco when smoked in the
entrance however not at a level to give proper varroa control)).

Of course my experiments with formic acid have been in the interest of
learning about the product. I would never endorse an illegal method on a bee
list.

You will get a kill with Api Life var, apiguard and miteaway 2 but many
factors can make you get a kill far below advertised kill rates. Which makes
many beekeepers simply think if you buy the product you will always get the
top kill rate advertised. NOT SO! However I think its safe to say Apistan
and Checkmite when first used would clear a hive of varroa fast with a 98%
plus kill rate. It is my opinion that when varroa control drops below 90%
virus issues happen.

>Everyone tries their best to control varroa,
so what more can we do?

I read your article in this months Bee Culture (twice in fact). Well done! I
agree with most  you said. I think *you* have got a clear picture of the
problems we face but not sure about the industry as a whole.

 I especially liked the tough warning to beekeepers in the last part. I
would of liked to see the first rough draft as the article seemed to lack
the fire you use on BEE-L and the "other" list!

Maybe because of Kim's influence?

Both bee magazines are now running articles which tell it like it is for
which I applaud both editors. When I first started writing quite a bit was
edited out of my articles and deemed as too controversial. You stepped on a
few toes Jim  but I think those toes needed a gentle step to let those
people
know we are keeping tabs on what is being said and will object when needed.

I was also impressed with Randy Olivers article in ABJ. Many going to the
almonds are armed with the articles about almond pollination in bee
magazines as their only source of information.

I might clarify the part I told Randy about singles.

 Hives in two deeps are reduced into singles in South Georgia. Extra sealed
honey is removed ( can amount to 60-80 lbs. of weight) and the only honey
sent is the ovals around the sealed brood and one frame of sealed honey.
The purpose is to be able to send 700 hives on a semi instead of 450
doubles. The income from the extra 250 will cover trucking.

We had one load of 480 doubles once from Missouri but most over wintered
hives in doubles are heavy so even if there is room the load is over gross.

The shipping cost is less per hive with 700 singles. Second the hives are
easy too grade in California as 8 frames of bees.(simply lift the lid). Also
with mainly emerging brood when set in almonds (directly off the semi and
almonds in bloom) the frames of sealed brood become places for the queen too
lay as they emerge and most of the bees become foragers right away. Our
experience with Australian package bees has shown us a deep will contain the
pollen and nectar from the almond flow.

 We have had some swarming issues on return from almonds but not a big deal
in March if those hives bring top dollar as our main honey flow does not
start until June 1st. to 15th. I have counted as many as 18 swarms hanging
in trees in the holding yard after the return from almonds but all were
caught and dropped in equipment.

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison


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