> >Randy wrote,  and I think his post was coloured by anger at Bob, as my
> post will now likely be coloured by anger at him:


Sorry, Stan if I sounded angry--I'm not.  Clearly there is a problem of
communication, since I really felt that we had resolved the issue.  I spent
a great deal of time trying to find the "missing data" that you were looking
for, and thought that I had gotten to the bottom of it.  I thought that I
had contacted the researcher that you had told me to contact, and had all
the details explained.  Old degraded samples in the freezer may simply not
be worth the effort of analysis, since if they don't contain any pesticide,
the complainant (in this case, you) would certainly blame it on degradation
during storage.

At this point, I feel that if you still believe that there is data that has
not been released, that you ask a member of the Honey Bee Advisory Board to
seek it out.  I don't get paid for my time for trying to help, and clearly
get no appreciation for my efforts.

>And I certainly did not say "neonic-treated canola".  I specified carefully
that all the canola here is treated with thiomethoxam.

I apologize Stan, however thiomethoxam is a neonicotinoid, so I would
consider "canola seed treated with thiomethoxam" to be within the class of
"neonic-treated canola."

>I researched Stan's question deeply last year.
> >Give me a break!  You talked to Dave Fischer.
>

Did you not read my post or off list reports to you?  As you say, Dr Fischer
knew little about the project, and as I recall referred me to the same
researchers that you had referred me to.  I discussed the project at length
with them.

>
>  >Bayer was only marginally involved in the study.
>>
> >They funded it.  Completely, I believe.


Both Bayer and the researcher indicated to me that this is not true.

>Dennis has a paper which is currently submitted for review regarding a
> feeding trial of imidacloprid in pollen with some very surprising results. I
> will reserve comments until the paper comes out, so we can speak of
> specifics.


The results of that paper have been discussed for some time by the research
community.  As I've stated before, it is often difficult to extrapolate lab
studies to the real-life effects in the field.  Stan, absolutely no one is
disputing the fact that the neonics are harmful to insects at certain
doses.  In case you hadn't noticed, the pesticide companies market them to
kill insects!

>
> >Well I have a request, Randy.


After that blast you are going to ask me for a request?????


>   >Bayer obviously did some study on termites regarding imidacloprid...it
> weakens the immune system of termites so that the colonies die of other
> diseases.Could we have some citations for papers on how this effect works?


Stan, using pesticides, including neonics, to weaken an insect's immune
system is a widely used strategy in biocontrol.  I've read a few papers on
the subject, and have specifically mentioned that imidacloprid is used for
that effect in an article that I published in ABJ.  Yes, there are a number
of papers on the subject in the public domain.  I'm currently sitting in an
airport lobby with my flight soon to leave.  When I get a chance, I will
take the time to search some out an mail them to you off list--not because
there is anything to hide, nor because at this point I feel that I owe you
any more favors.

I'm frankly getting tired of getting hammered by some who think that I am
party to some kind of nefarious data cover up.  Believe me, I report on
everything that I find, and if you were to read to the bottom of my last
post, you can see that I've heard a suggested mechanism as to why your bees
may have suffered from neonics in forage after potatoes, and that I have
reason to believe that other specific problems are caused by neonic
application or misapplication.  The shouting, however, makes it hard for me
to think.

Randy Oliver

Randy Oliver

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