I'm surprised that meretricious claims like this one:

> In areas where neonics were 
> banned, the bees didn't get better. 

are still being made in light of the evidence that has formed a basis for
consensus.

Let's think about just how long a "ban" might have to last to truly
eliminate a pesticide from the bee's foraging environment in light of just
one study's findings:

Quoting from the extension-office summary of the paper's findings:
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/CropNews/2012/0406hodgson.htm
http://tinyurl.com/nm7kaph

"Soil samples collected from fields not planted with a seed treatment for
two years still contained detectable levels of clothiandin."

"Dandelions collected from around field edges BEFORE planting had detectable
levels of neonicotinoids."

So, not only do we have clothiandin and Imidacloprid pesticide persistence
for more than a year, we also have uptake of those persistent pesticide
residues by plants that bees are known to use as important early forage. 

On Long Island, in NY they grow lots of truck-garden crops on the far
Eastern "North Fork", and slightly further west, there are large potato
farms. The persistence of over 100 pesticides in the groundwater,
Imidacloprid among them, tends to refute claims of rapid breakdown.  There
have also been groundwater contamination issues in Florida, which is
geologically similar to Long Island, in that both are essentially sand bars
with shallow water table depths. 

So, we can conclude:

1)  Persistence may exceed a year or two.

2)  The "fate of the chemical in the environment" may be an issue where
field samples tell us far more than the predictions of chemistry done on a
lab bench.

3)  Water tables play a role, so effects may not be as local as one might
hope.

4) Breakdown of pesticides in water and when exposed to sunlight are not as
reliable as claimed, so persistence may be massively underestimated for
multiple pesticides that are claimed to break down quickly.

And remember the researcher who was dismissed here on Bee-L as such a wacko
by several who made explanations for the actions of Atrazine maker Syngenta?
If he was confused or mistaken, why did Syngenta settle a lawsuit by paying
over 1000 municipalities who sued to recover their cost of filtering the
Atrazine out of their municipal water supplies?  Are the elected leaders of
1000 Midwestern cities also "wacko"?

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/01/communities_including_co
lumbus.html
http://tinyurl.com/neenukx

But just what is the persistence of Atrazine given the depth of water tables
in the Midwest? (150 to 200 feet)

             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html