> BUT, I do know that I started nucs as late as mid-August, and they made 
> it.

I did that one year and had great winter success, so  I did it again on a 
hundred times larger scale the next year -- and lost 50% in winter.  Two 
steps forward, one step back.

> I do not like the lack of room over the frames, which makes it hard to add 
> pollen patties (have to really squish them down),

I use the manufactured lids, but not the way intended.  Actually, I don't 
know many commercial guys who use hard inner covers anymore.  Everyone uses 
plastic quilts (pillows) or carpet or canvas or just a plastic sheet. 
Flexible inners allow for peeling up a corner or side to peek or fill a 
feeder. and stay on if the outer is blown off.

For patties, etc, this approach -- flexible inners -- combined with using 
the 1" rims normally sold for use with the large formic pads allows lots of 
space, but limits building of wild comb on top or loss of heat.

Personally, I nail 20" x 16" x 1" rims of 3/4" material permanently up into 
the outer lid.  This allows placing patties or other items on top of the 
frames and keeps the rims from getting wrecked and from being a nuisance.  A 
few sticks laid across the top bars can ensure access to dust treatments or 
transit space across the frames in winter.

The stryo lids need a little bigger dimension, but the idea is the same, and 
the rim pressing only at the edge of the quilt ensures a good seal around 
the edge of the hive while allowing up to an inch of room in the middle. 
The quilt falls down to fill the space as the patty or sugar is consumed. 

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