Hello Dee & All,
Fully drawn has been tried before and will not work for me. Been there and
done that!

Fully drawn to me has always been the idea of people which have never ran
many bee hives or have got knowledge of the ways the bees work. Also unaware
of the methods commercial beekeepers use plastic foundation. We like the
added strength of the comb,the ease of cleaning out deadouts and the ease of
removing large patches of drone comb.

We do not like the acceptance level at first by the bees and the slowness of
getting drawn as compared to pure wax foundation with *extra wax* which the
bees simply draw like a potter would using the wax on the comb instead of
wax made in glands.

A large experiment is being done in California this year on almond
pollination with fully drawn plastic comb. 2000 Australian packages are
being installed on fully drawn plastic comb (not sure if the maker discussed
here).

 My opinion was asked by the Australians (they are very happy to provide the
packages (not free of charge of course) for the test even though I advised
if the test is a dismal failure the drawn comb people might try to blame
your packages)..

I said the project is a big gamble in money and I believe will produce poor
results in the end and a small testing of say 100 hives would have been what
I would have done first.

4.3mm. is at the bottom end of what you could ever get mellifera to except.
Way off from what I consider to be correct for my area 5.1mm. (and what your
graph Dee on Beesource shows is correct for my area)..Also if waxed dipped
what would be the inside id. (4.1 or 4.2)? What would be the diameter in 10
years due to scale (3.8 - 4.0) ? what about in 20 years ( 3.5-3.8)?


Abscounding happens with at times package installation. Queens fly but like
many swarms will simply reject the new equipment .

Especially if wood and plastic with no prior hive smell. They move to a tree
and send out scouts. I still rub peach leaves on the inside of new boxes
when all equipment is new. I run a small orchard and the bees prefer the
peach tress by far as places to swarm to!

I might poke my nose into what is going on in California. I would be
interested in knowing the weight difference between fully drawn plastic and
fully drawn wax. If lighter (which I doubt) then the migratory beekeeper
might be interested but if heavier then might be a serious drawback as
weight is getting to be a big concern for beekeepers doing almond
pollination. As many as 30-40 hives are being left off semi's regularly
because of weight. Lighter weight wood is being tested. Over gross is
serious at weight scales as the extra weight (hives & pallets) have to be
unloaded for the load to get back on the highway and then a truck has to
come and pick up the colonies. A load of our bees NEVER leaves our area to
we see the load is below the gross limit of 80,000 pounds.

I will try to keep and open mind and have added my opinion as my friend Dee
asked. Hopefully the drawn plastic will work for beekeepers. The plastic
sheet foundation has been creeping up in price instead of going lower which
is upsetting many commercial beekeepers. Some have returned to regular
foundation. Hopefully the new fully drawn will be cheaper than sheet plastic
foundation (in your dreams!).

Another drawback for migratory beekeepers would be the plastic frame itself.
Most use plastic foundation in a wood frame so the frames do not shift
around as much. Also when the end breaks ( even the new Pierco's break at
times)  the frame is trash!

I asked a couple friends what they thought and sadly I can't put in print on
a family list what they said. One did say he might be interested in five
years if still on the market and a beekeeper not selling the stuff is having
success (or if I test ). Don't kill the messenger!

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison

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