Andy Nachbaur <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
 
> >>Formic Acid Gel Protects Bees and People
>
> The Good, the Bad, or Ugly?
>
> Its good to have another chemical tool to help fight bee pests.
> Its good that all beekeepers may be able to use this tool.
> Its good that we may have this tool sooner then later.
>
> --- I could end it here and save a lot of band width but I won't ---
 
That's why we love you Andy!  I agree wholeheartedly with your 3 points,
it's good to have another tool in our arsenal that all beekeepers may
use, sooner than later.
 
> Its very bad that the USDA is handling the promotion of this product.
 
Well, the thing you're missing is that USDA has signed off on
promoting/marketing gel formic and have sold the rights to anyone
willing to buy them.  USDA brought the product as far as they were able
and then sold the rights to those willing to market the product.  I am
not privy to the details of the license agreement nor am I sure if
Betterbee is the only interested party, I thought there were others but
I am not able to say with assuredness.
 
> How ugly and how long until a product with only an 84% effective kill
> rate under the best conditions will produce resistant mites?
 
If we were in the position that gel formic was the only weapon against
varroa, the 16% survival rate could lead to formic resistance in varroa
mites.  However we soon will be in a situation where we have TWO
weapons in our arsenal.  I do not know, but I doubt highly that the 16%
of the mites that survive formic acid will also be resistant to Apistan.
A one two punch of formic and Apistan is a much better treatment
possibility than Apistan alone.
 
> Betterbee Inc,, who own's them, it would be bad and ugly to find out
> they had a few partners working for the USDA?
 
Betterbee Inc, owned and operated by Bob Stevens in Greenwich, NY.  I
don't know all of Bob's personal business but I doubt highly you'll ever
discover "a few partners working for the USDA".  I believe his biggest
hurdle right now regarding bringing gel formic to the marketplace is
dealing with the regulations of shipping a hazardous product to the
consumer.  And this has always been the problem with formic acid, the
fact that it is a hazardous material.  There is one segment of the
population wanting to use this hazardous material for their benefit
while there is another segment of the population bent on protecting
those who want to use the product.  I don't think it's fair to blame
USDA or Betterbee here, I think it's time to flog a few lawyers and the
clients who give them their business!
 
> How many commercial beekeepers use their products and what do they
> think of them?
 
Well, Bob is a commercial beekeeper, albeit on the smaller side, I
believe running about 1000 hives in the Southern Adirondacks,
overwintering in Florida.
 
>> ... After the acid evaporates, it leaves a harmless residue that
>> won't contaminate the hive or the honey.
>
> Right and if you believe this let me sell you some bees that need not
> human intervention other then harvesting the honey.
 
C'mon Andy, this is a pot shot.  Again I don't know, as in I have no
PROOF, but my pea brain perceives the potential for hive contamination
from formic acid as being FAR LESS than that of a synthetic pyrethrin.
 
> ... Wonder how the rest of the world that has over 1,000,000 acres of
> almonds does it with no honey bees ...  Ask the USDA almond
> pollination experts if you want a surprise.
 
Like Roy, I too would like to hear this surprise.  What would it be?
 
> The question is why is it that when the USDA promotes a hobby
> beekeeper solution to beekeeping problems like this they always are
> fast to quote commercial beekeeping stats ... when not one
> commercial beekeeper ... can name a USDA Pollination Scientist or
> has ever seen one?
 
Well Andy, you're losing me here; or I'm losing your point.  Are you
calling the USDA the pawn of hobby beekeepers and the bane of
commercial guys or is your point more general, like USDA, who need's
'em?  Who are you calling good, bad and ugly?  I don't fault USDA for
bringing us better weapons to combat varroa, nor do I fault those who
are willing to jump through hoops and over hurdles to satisfy all the
agencies who demand that a certain product be handled in a certain
manner.  Indeed I find it offensive that as a beekeeper I cannot be
trusted to handle materials which I was allowed to use as a first year
chemistry student, but that is the result of many lawsuits brought and
won by people who were too clumsy to use products safely and too
irresponsible to own the consequences of their own actions.  Don't
fault USDA, fault the lady who won millions from Mickey Dees because
she poured scalding coffee all over her crotch!  I mean the nerve of
McDonalds, serving HOT coffee.
 
Personally I look forward to having gel formic available as another
weapon to combat varroa and I thank the players who have made it so.
I'm not thrilled with the higher price gel formic will have, but I won't
bite the hand that brings it.  I will use gel formic in conjunction with
Apistan to help me stay in bees long enough so I will see the day when
the breeders have developed a strain of Apis mellifera which can coexist
with varroa without the need of beekeeper intervention.
 
Aaron Morris - thinking the hand that feeds me deserves better.