Bob said, in regard to Neonicotinoids:

> To be fair:
> Research from the makers say the dose is too low to harm bees ,
> Research in Italy seems to show the opposite.

This seems to be a new and highly unusual use of the term
"fair", one to which we have hitherto been unexposed. :)

Let's look at some accurate information, as one cannot 
ever be "fair" until one at least has facts in hand.

There have been allegations related to corn planting exposure
made in Italy. Unlike the recent case in Germany, it is NOT 
suspected that a seed treatment snafu was responsible for 
the alleged bee kills in Italy.  

Allegations of bee kills in Italy from seed treatment products  
go back a number of years (since at least 2003) and have been 
leveled against several different products.  First it was Gaucho 
(imidacloprid).  Then it was fipronil and thiamethoxam.  Now it 
is Poncho (clothianidin).  In the past, science panels have 
reviewed the evidence and found it wanting.  They've concluded 
those products could not be blamed, nor could any pesticide.

There are similar reviews going on regarding the most recent 
reports, but a conclusion has not yet been announced so far.  
Everyone who knows even a tiny bit of toxicology is very 
skeptical of some of the residue findings posted on the web
and mentioned in press reports. Some are so far above expected 
levels for a pesticide kill that one has to wonder if the 
sampling, handling and/or analytical methods were valid.  

So to summarize, the German situation was an inexcusable and
inexplicable sequence of errors that killed lots of bees,
and SHOULD be the basis of some serious lawsuits against
the company that failed to "glue" the pesticide to the seeds
properly.

The Italian situation has yet to be proven, and given the
history of the prior claims, I think we can predict that
these accusations will also evaporate into thin air.

As for North American pesticide kills, what we need is
less shrugging of shoulders, and more bees being put
on dry ice or into liquid nitrogen to be sent to labs.

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