I think that there are a few inaccuracies here regarding Broodminder and  
comparisons to the Nectar Detector are more of an apples and oranges  
variety.

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 23:10:13 -0400, James Fischer  
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> The beekeeper's data is hostage to the whim of the company, assuming the  
> company both still exists, and is in a mood to continue to "support" the  
> device.
> While one hopes that this can be avoided with a Bluetooth device, one is  
> still dependent on the company's "app".

I have almost 3,000 data samples uploaded already and can get them in the  
CSV format at any time. No dependency on the 'company's app' at all to  
play with the data and by the way, all the data resides on my phone  
already, in the app. The real-time graphs are simply fascinating - it's  
about as close as actually being able to peak into the hive without  
opening it.

> These under-hive electronic hive scales do not impress NASA, who has  
> learned the hard way in their ongoing study of climate change and its  
> impact on bloom dates:

With all due respect to NASA, but that protocol is 10 years old and in the  
paragraph you've quoted they clearly state that electronic scales are new  
on the market and they have no real experience with them. There are no  
other references in that paper to electronic scales, quite the contrary,  
they spend a lot of time talking about old-fashioned farm scales with  
brass weight arms, etc. Talk about dated material...

I've checked with a friendly mechanical engineer with a PE license who  
pointed me to a few resources on modern strain gauges. In short, their  
usefulness for outdoor use is entirely dependent on how well they are  
encapsulated (quote below is from a Wikipedia article):

> Gauges attached to a load cell would normally be expected to remain  
> stable over a period of years, if not decades; while those used to  
> measure >response in a dynamic experiment may only need to remain  
> attached to the object for a few days, be energized for less than an  
> hour, and operate for >less than a second.
> Strain gauges are attached to the substrate with a special glue. The  
> type of glue depends on the required lifetime of the measurement system.  
> For short >term measurements (up to some weeks) cyanoacrylic glue is  
> appropriate, for long lasting installation epoxy glue is required.
Additional data on fatigue characteristics and strain gauge selection  
criteria is available here:

> http://www.vishaypg.com/docs/11055/tn505.pdf 
> http://www.vishaypg.com/docs/11058/tn5081.pdf

> Fischer’s Nectar Detector ( http://nectar-detector.com ) is the answer  
> to all of the problems listed above.

I've watched the film and I have to say that I don't see how it is at all  
easier than the Broodminder scale. I just walk up to my hive with my cell  
phone, tap a few buttons and I'm done. No need to carry anything (cell  
phone is always with me), no need to insert anything or crank any levers.  
I don't even have to be next to the hive to get the data.

> “Is Weather Proof” – Yep, the works go home with you, and never suffer  
> extended exposure to the elements.

Broodminder scale is designed to last outdoors, so that's not a valid  
counter argument.

> “Sufficient Accuracy Over the Range of Temperatures” – Yep, you zero the  
> scale before each weighing, so there is no drift due to temperature. All  
> electronic hive scales that are left "out in the weather" have inherent  
> problems with temperature stability.

Not really, not with the modern gauges.

> Variations in temperature can render the readings useless. There's also  
> drift, which happens with any scale that is loaded continuously with the  
> weight of a beehive.

Again, not a real problem with moder gauges and a scale reset can be done  
at any time.

> “Re-zeroing is a Problem” – Nope, just press a button!

So it's here too.

> “Confidence in the Accuracy Over Time” – You can verify it any time.

Same.

> "Lift the entire hive" - No need to do so. How do we do it? Physics!

No need to lift anything after the initial installation. I know, give me a  
long enough ever and I can lift the Earth, but still you cannot beat  
tapping a screen of a mobile phone for the ease of use!

Przemek
--

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