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Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology

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Subject:
From:
Allen Dick <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:33:27 -0600
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Thank you for taking the time to explain why fluorine and other halides can have
different effects depending on how they are bonded.

> Fluorine bonded to
> carbon is a very different type of chemical than the fluoride ion as added
> to some toothpaste, and scarcely occurs in nature.  It has unpredictable
> effects  -   e.g. the drug fluoxetine as outlined by Bill.  My mentioning
> that by a typo months ago should cause no more trouble, but it is an
> interesting case of biological effect from an organofluorine compound.

I'm no chemist, but I gathered -- perhaps incorrectly -- from your above
discussion, that the presence of fluorine and the bond in the Prozac case, and
the presence of fluorine and the bond in the fluvalinate example, were
similar -- yet my understanding is that fluoxetine can be consumed safely and
beneficially (in recommended small doses) while fluvalinate should be considered
harmful in any amount.  If this is true, how does the presence of fluorine and
that type of bond make fluvalinate suspect as a more dangerous toxin than
similar molecules that lack that particular feature.  I understood you to be
saying that one feature is the major difference between fluvalinate and the
natural pyrethroids?

> (Actually, the fluoride ion is about as toxic as the forms of arsenic that
> have been used as poisons; and if you drink water with more than a few ppm
> F- (as do millions of poor people in parts of India & China) you are liable
> to malformed bones & teeth; fluoride ion is far from harmless.)

Interestingly Dr. Jerry Bromenshenk discussed here on BEE-L some time back the
toxic effects of fluorine -- as it occurs in water supplies -- on honey bees.
This was of great interest to me since our water supply locally is apparently at
or slightly above the maximum Alberta standard for human consumption by children
(2ppm) and we were considering mixing sugar with it for bee feed.  Jerry
indicated that he believes fluorine, for some reason builds up in bees and
results in uneconomic performance.  Here are links to the original articles:

http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9504&L=bee-l&P=R10749
http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9504&L=bee-l&P=R11008

> The total experience with synthetic organochlorine compounds has
> been worrying.  The ecological fate of fluvalinate has not been studied
> much, and its effects on bees should have been more studied before it was
> put into commerce.  Research on less toxic varroacides should be a far
> higher priority.  Why would anyone disagree with that?

I think as beekeepers, we all wince when we use *any* insecticide or miticide in
our hives and any effort to reduce or eliminate their use is to be applauded.

allen

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