Jim said:
quote:"Are small-cell beekeepers simply unwitting "SMR breeding  program
Do-It-Yourselfers"?
If not, how would anyone know for sure?"  unnquote.

Reply:
If this is true, then what is really SMR bees and breeding program other
then copying small cell beekeeping?
Any comments.................................

Dee asks about SMR.
SMR refers to bees  which for some unknown reason varroa as trouble
reproducing in the brood. I have had SMR bees which had zero varroa drop in
August but SMR is only a trait and not a line of bees.

Breeding from survivors (as Dee did) did not work for the Baton Rouge Bee
lab years ago.

Breeding from survivors  did not work for me *at the start* as all died in
two years.

Until I started using  survivor stock produced at the Baton Rouge Bee lab
(SMR , Russian  and low PMIB )I had no success.

I now see the same success Dee does without the expense, labor and years
with making a profit the Lusby's went through.

I watched with great interest the Baton Rouge Bee lab work through the
varroa problem.

Because Harris & Harbo were not seeing success breeding from survivors they
decided to look further and discovered both the SMR & PMIB trait.

Although bees with the SMR trait can be found in many lines and the trait
enhanced through breeding I seriously do not believe the SMR trait is the
reason for Dee's success.

In all fairness I know of not one other beekeeper which did as Dee & Ed did
and did not fail. My survivor project failed! By the second fall untreated
hives were  dying. Not until I started bringing in stock from the bee lab
and using the principals used by the Baton Rouge Bee Lab did the situation
change.

I have been working with another beekeeper which is enjoying the same
success I am and reached his success through a closed breeding program using
some of the same Baton Rouge stock in addition to survivor stock.

One can not argue with the results of the Lusby's. I would have liked to
have seen a paper trail but the Lusby's have none. Myself and the other
beekeeper I am working with know why our bees tolerate varroa through
testing we have done.

We have got a bee which will tolerate varroa. The bee was found by putting
varroa pressure on the bees. Not even the bee lab applys varroa pressure.
Does a member of the list know of one researcher in the world looking for  a
varroa tolerant bee which leaves full frames ( 1 to 2)  of drone comb in the
hive for the varroa to breed in to increase varroa pressure. We have found
when varroa pressure is put on many of the commercial lines on the market
the bees  crash the first year.

One of the best commercial lines in the U.S. was tested this year by
applying varroa pressure. Only one hive was still alive out of  38 in
August.

All researchers  I talk to and read about place a certain number of varroa
in the hive at the start of the project which is ok but lets place a frame
or two of drone brood in also (   do not remove    ) and find the real
survivors!

Jim said:
c) Sit back and wait for the results, which will be  initially
authoritative on the sole point of "do these  colonies
really survive varroa?".

Even a few sticky board test results  sent to me at various times of the
year  would explain quite a bit as far as varroa load.


Reply:
Sit back and wait...........gee, it's been 8 years going on 9 in 2005 now
coming!  How long does one wait1


I agree with Dee. The fact they are alive untreated trumps the research. I
am now interested in how much varroa pressure they can tolerate .


Dee said:
But key here is gutta want to do it.....................and mite drop
counts to me is for researchers with time.

For years many have called me "the mechanic". I test and then replace the
lone auto defective part.

The same result can be had by simply replacing parts till you stumble onto
the defective part (common beekeeper method). Even though many times the
defective part is replaced by replacing several parts at once with the
replacing  several parts at once system YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM PART
WAS BUT YOU CAN NOT ARGUE WITH THE RESULTS AS THE TRUCK IS FIXED.
A bit costly and time consuming but the truck is fixed.

As I said before you can not argue wuth the Lusby's success  and although
Dee has an idea the reason for the success it is hard to say if success came
from small cell, breeding or another undiscovered reason. Without testing I
could only guess .

My opinion:
Without testing is like a blind man looking for a certain can of food in his
cupboard. If he opens every can he will eventually find the can he was
looking for. maybe he will find the can he is looking for on the  first try.
maybe not!

Dee said:
In the end he who wins has bees to fill agric needs that are  healthy.!

I agree! many beekeepers in the U.S. are being dealt fits this fall from
varroa. I hear almost every day of beekeepers losing hives to varroa.  I am
proud to say I (like Dee)   am not having varroa problems this year! was not
always so!

Bob

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