Boy!
Am I glad I followed instinct and decided to put this to the list
instead of staying with private email.
Thanks for jumping in Mark!
My last personal experience with bees in California was in 1986 and
I guess a lot has changed.
I remember now that Kevin Ward (from California) was up here last
month and mentioned that he was using single broods and that he felt
that he was able to treat better - and cheaper - for mites and that
it didn't seem to affect his ability to get good buildup.
I though it a little peculiar and I didn't realise that this is a
general change in California.
I wonder how this affects the standards for pollinating hives?
I know our pollination standards up here specify two brood chambers.
> I am in the same area as the original poster (SF, Calif.), and have had
> what appears to be a varroa related change in bee behavior. I also run
> doubles, but almost all of my hives have filled the second story completely
> full of honey in spite of ample supering. They never did this before the
> mites got here. As a result it has become quite time consuming and rather
> hit or miss treating for varroa. I have had quite a few hives which did not
> get the strips into the brood and as a result died or had to be retreated
> in a weakened state. All of the big commercial beekeepers that I talked to
> at the CA state convention are using single story brood chambers, and claim
> not to notice any reduction in yields in Calif. I have therefore decided to
> go to single stories and have inserted the excluders after chasing the
> queens down.
<etc>
I'd also like to use this a springboard to (re)open discussion on ideal brood
chamber size:
I've run single broods here in Alberta, Canada a number of times for
different reasons:
1. Comb honey production on a large scale *
2. Experimenting with extracted production in single broods.
In both cases, I found that wintering was less successful - unless
the hives were restored to doubles as soon as the main flow was over
and preferably sooner. I also found that the singles did not produce
as much extracted honey or do as well generally. This in spite of
reports to the contrary from Saskatchewan.
This latter effect *may* have been due to shortage of feed and/or
neglect during buildup. Singles tend to starve - or suffer from
feed shortage - really quickly.
I guess one must keep a super on with some feed in it when possible
- or a top feeder. Of course in theis latter case, they will plug
up in a jiffy, so the super sounds smarter. Not only do they starve
faster, but they will plug up faster too.
I'm used to doubles and they hold more feed and have more room for
feeders. They are also more tolerant of warped combs and other forms
of neglect.
My singles for comb production were usually made up by taking all the
brood from a double hive and placing it in a single. The books are
right. All the brood most queens can make will fit into a standard
box with room for a comb or more of feed.
A factor in my use of singles is that - possibly - some combs were
less than perfect in some hives and the area for brood rearing
*might* have been inadequate - I don't think so. Additionally some
had 9 frame spacers - leaving even less comb area, but allowing
more tolerance for warpage.
I have never been able to see any difference in survival, buildup,
etc between 8 and 9 frame spacing.
However, my observation was that - left to themselves - the queens
did not utilise the entire nest in singles in the spring, but tended
to leave the outside combs.
I asked Kevin if he had to spread brood in singles. He said never.
The bees spread out just fine in California.
I heard years ago that the shape of the brood nest tends to follow
the magnetic lines of force; at the equator (where the lines are
horizontal) the brood nest tends to expand horizontally. In the
North and South, where the lines are more vertical and re-entering
the magnetic poles, the brood nest tends to be more vertical.
I wonder if that is true? It was a factor in the design of the
Kenyan hive, as I recall.
I feel that up here at least, the queen does not like to spread out
as much as go up and down. In July the queen will sometimes go wall to wall,
so perhaps it is a function of temperature and flow conditions too.
At any rate, I'd much rather use singles, but have had problems. I
feel that doubles are too roomy for good honey production, but
necessary for good buildup, wintering outdoors, and require much less
management.
I remember reading in a journal years ago that a fellow in the
central states (USA) said that the last big crop he had was the year
before he switches to 10 frame brood chambers from (narrower) 8
frame broods. I always wondered about that.
I leave frame feeders in one side of each of my standard Langstroth
double broods and seldom have them filled with comb unless I am slow
supering. I use an excluder above the second brood.
As varroa approaches us here, we need to start to (re)think a few
things and maybe give smaller BC's a try - for purposes of mite
control, if nothing else.
Those mites are making beekeepers out of us!
Forgive my rambling, everyone and if you have some thoughts - and
hopefully experience - in the above , I'd love to hear about it.
TIA
Allen
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* PS I am selling about 500 beautiful pine dovetailed Ross Round
supers for a good price because I am (after 15+ years) cutting back my
comb honey production. Email me if you are interested.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* And - to keep going well after the end - What are your thoughts on
advertising on the list?
I have been planning some additional lists to take some burden of
this one. One I have in mind would be nothing but ads (free) for buy
and sell.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* PLEASE!!! - Newbies and Oldbees - Respond on these last items *to
me and only me*.
And please look at the header *before* you send.
While on the subject; please let's make sure we don't post ANYTHING
to the list unless it is potentially of interest to the 400+ people on
the list, or unless there is no other way to reach the target audience -
and the matter relates to bees in some way.
We periodically get babble going where a few people start some small
talk and post every comment to all the members rather than going off-list.
This always results in people leaving the list.
We need good posts on matters relating to bees, job offers, meetings etc.
I wonder about other ads, seeing as this is a worldwide list.
Comments on thede non-bee matters to me personally. Will summarise.
Regards
Allen
W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK
RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:[log in to unmask]
Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures <http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka>
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