I don't mind having discussions that are awkward. The question of mite resistance (or tolerance) in honey bees is thorny, of course. Claims have been made, and people have experienced rising expectations and disappointment. 

Agreed, unfortunately it tends to pit the reader into a plot of trying to decide who has better wordsmithing and communication skills. They have to try to decide based on reading who has more skills and experience.  I don't like putting people in that spot. Evidence show right now most are choosing what I consider to be wrong.



Mite resistance/tolerance is certainly a fact for tropical bees. Apis cerana and the African bees do not succumb to varroa the way the European bees (especially in the North) do. 

Yes it is,  using traits that is not in any way friendly or commercially viable.



Regional feral stock, Russian bees, and VSH bees have demonstrated a degree of resistance which has allowed some people to forgo chemical treatment. Others have been unable to make it work.

This to me is complete evidedence that we are clueless as to whats going on.  Were it a genetic issue these traits would transfer.  Time and time again they do not.


I trialed Texas queens vs. queens from Florida and observed a marked difference in mite buildup between these strains. Now it could be because the Florida bees were highly susceptible, and not a valid control. 

I to have done  many many trials.  So far the key to mite buildup variances eludes me,  but its not where the queens are from. It certainly seems more about initial loads, weather, and queen replacements or brood breaks than genetics.  I do continue to hope and test.  Right now the jury is out on the TX queens yet.  



But either way, it shows some strains are more or less resistant, hygienic, whatever you want to call it. Obviously, these types of traits need to be maintained, as the bees tend to revert to the unselected baseline.

That is an interesting statement,  one I disagree with on principal. If traits are genetic,  then we would have many good cases of proof. There are hundreds of breeders out there.  Surely one or two would be successful,  and yet what I see is zero.  Of course the excuse is "you didn't maintain it"  while that is possible,  its not real.  If you buy the theory(I don't) in the  other thread the commercial guys have flooded the gene pool and screwed up the genetics,  then you also have to agree that the same thing would happen with these resistant lines.   Any queen producer that can breed TF queens will have at least one or two customers who flood the area with them.

I have to at the moment believe a bit more in the concept of epigenetic traits, learned traits,  or some other thing we are clueless about as of yet.   The bottom line  is 20 years or better of genetics as got us zero.  Mites win. Period.  WE manipulate it at times,  some knowingly, a lot unknowingly vie swarms, brood breaks and supercedures.  For example Russians and to a smaller extent Carnis, practice brood breaks on their own without intervention.  That’s a trait,  but not genetic resistance.  

If you buy the theory of start with resistant queens,,  at the moment that would be Africinized bees. And we know that doesn't bode well.  So far,  all the rest is just advertising.

We would be much better off as a group to admit we have no resistance, we have some who claim it and heres their methods (Tim Ives, MB, etc)but to say buy resistant queens IMO makes you a shill for a some shall we say "optimistic" queen breeders.  And I struggle with the term optimistic,  and think "Opportunistic" is a much better adjective

Charles

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