Bill T brings this discussion to a poignant perspective with his comment, "I have found that
some who "do not treat" are only talking about commercial treatments, like
Apistan and the like. Some use "natural" treatments like formic and oxalic
acid or "organic oils" like thyme oil, spearmint etc. Also. brood frame
removal,"
 
My thoughts:  What we need is some kind of a list of treatments, non-treatments and manipulations and/or management practices so we're all on the same page...and with survivability results.
 
I, too, have intentionally done the "set it and forget it" experiment.  Those bees generally lived into a second season, but the third season they were wax moth food.  Many of these were also feral swarms which I presumed had some kind of a genetic variable.  Maybe it was just the brood break.  I also used Screen Bottom Boards on these hives (another wild-card variable that skews results).
 
I've also done a ton of the "natural" non-treatments.  I can say, "I don't treat," but I'm specifically referring to the chemical methods.  And those untreated/non-treated, natural hives generally live to the point they could be easily split.  Yet some died the following winter.  What's up with this?  
 
There's a lot of confusion over what really constitutes an "untreated" hive.  Even moving a hive into full sun has shown proven varroa assistance (some old ABJ article that I can't find at the moment).  Combined with the full sun, I might make an ignorant case for some other non-treatment that basically has no detriment or benefit.
 
Grant
Jackson, MO - whose preference is to eliminate the chemicals, but not wanting to consign hives to an unnecessary death sentence
 
 


      

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