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Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology

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From:
Glenn woemmel <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 27 Feb 2018 23:38:26 -0500
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aaron
>> ​Honestly, very little of what this author has contributed has made much
sense to me​<

You mention the two year experiance as if it might be a bad thing and leading the beeL down a TF rabbit hole.  I don't have a low enough view of the members here that I think I could lead them down a rabbit hole.  I don't feel bad about the two year thing cause it is what it is and I put it out as a full disclosure type thing so that it could be part of the equation when reading my stuff.  That way there is no miss leading or miss representation from me.

I never once represented that it might not be dumb luck that my hives were still alive.  Examples
>What could I get by treating?  I don't know.  Will I have a 50 percent lose next year?  I don't know.  Will I make any honey this year?
>I don't brag about the future, cause I know I am in an experment, I do know the past so far and can't even say what it is compared to others  cause I don't have any experiance to compare it with.

How is my stating this so much differrent then randy stating this?

>To be clear, I am in no way claiming that they are indeed mite resistant,
or that they will survive a second season without treatment, or that they
carry a heritable trait.  I am simply transparently sharing the results of
a stringent selective breeding program, which may eventually show success,
or completely fail.  Either way, I will honestly and objectively publish
the results.

There is more but I am sure you get the gist.

Quote from you
>I was offended by the statement, "Shouldn't the real guage be if you are
making a profit and what your profit to labor hours is." It's not about the
money, it's about the bees, or, "Take care of the bees and the dollars will
take care of themselves.">

This is like the chicken and the egg arguement, which came first.
When I say.
>The ones for pure profit are probably adding up the cost to benefit of most actions they take regaurdless of the bees and the reason they worry about the health is cause they make more money.

Saying it that way is not much differrent but I also said that michael palmer kept bees under a apple polination contract and apple pollination can be hard on bees and so it was the contract that took priority.  You may believe you are keeping bees for the bees.  I even believe that taking care of the bees best you can adds up to more money.  So which came first, did you start keeping bees for the bees or for the money?  Regaurdless of why you did it, why do most get bees?  Being offended does not change what is true in more cases then not.

Seeleys forrest
If you look at my post you see that I also said that seeleys bees may not work in my hive.  The seeley referance was useful in couple of ways but was not diparaged in any way. One was that after the measurement was taken you had to come up with what they ment.  There was some earlier discussion that you only used data but not your brain.  Seeley showed you had to use both.  Two, I took the position in a questioning manner that I had thought there was some die off and rebound to where they are today and therefor some resistance was reflected in that.  Three was that they were definatly considered treatment free even though they had brood breaks due to swarming.  I did not get into the established hives or new hive life span before and after mite or the ones that did not make new queens during the year were the ones that died or even how resistant they were.  I have read it like you have heard it.  I did say they would probly not work in my hive which seems again to be the point you were making.  Sounds to me like we were saying the same thing just like the money or the bee.

I admit I may not be adding much to the conversation or things that are wrong and do not mind them being pointed out by others, I don't mind learning more.  I don't think that much subject matter is covered by only using the thing that I told every one myself (I am a two year guy) adds anything to how to look at an extra ordinary fact like people claim to have untreated bees that live.  I have two years and have read everything I can for three and have not doubt I will learn more then I know now.  I don't however believe all the things I have read are lies just like I believe the 20 year guy that lives close does not treat also.  I don't believe he is lieing either but like somebody else told me, If I have his bees, keep them like he does, I should have the type of success he has and so the real question would be, would I be happy with that level of success?
I hear you aaron and others on here may even agree with you, It is the best I have now.  With the stuff above at least getting my defence, I am no snake oil sales man.
Cheers
gww  



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