On Behalf Of Christina Wahl
" We are losing a battle on what I view as an important HELPFUL pesticide,"

OK Charlie now I get it.
You have an opinion that you want to support"


That's why I asked if they studies I mention are done?    If I am missing
them?
Your wrong, on one point,  right on the other.  I have an agenda...  I want
the truth..  right now it appears on one hand we have chicken little's
crying about everything.  On the other hand we have the eggheads who are
telling me there wrong,  but can't seem to explain it in anything that makes
a modicum of sense.
I know what I see.  In my career, I have been responsible for sorting out
the wheat from the chaff on scales and problems that dwarf my little hives.
I have at times 40 engineers working for me. My job was to keep them headed
in the right direction. It certainly appears to me the bee research group is
lost in the woods.
I know what I see, what I want is data.  
I have read and been very well educated on residues of pesticides in wax,
and transfer rates and so on.  All fantastic data collected by talented
people who are very spot on.   What it seems no one can answer is,  what are
the levels in the hives of the pesticides in question?  I have seen one
report that shows that seed coatings are not in the hive in any levels to be
a concern.  Only one.  But should I check Yahoo, Beesource ABJ or Bee
Culture,  and I am swamped with reports about how minuscule amounts help
mites in sub lethal doses...  All garbage science.  Non of that matters if
the levels in the actual bees is unknown.  It appears to my untrained eye,
that the wax is actually acting as a sink.  What I do know is that here in
the area with the highest concentrations,  I have great hives.  
Heck maybe I am standing on the edge of a huge cliff.  I don't know.  I do
know that Ariel sprayed Malithion and other derivatives have caused huge
issues.

What I had hoped was that some of the great researchers could either point
me in the right direction,  or ponder it themselves.  What I am getting from
at least your perspective,  is that I know nothing and  its all under
control....its not.  
If Know that gasoline in small doses is bad for my hive.  really bad.  Just
as bad as any pesticide.  But if its not in my hive who cares??

That's the argument put forth.  Like I said, maybe the studies are done?
Maybe I missed the data?  Tell me how much neonicitiods are being taken up
to the hive level.  Show my the differences between flowering plants that
are worked such as Canola, vs Corn which is hardly touched.  Show me that
areas like mine have different levels than area that have no usage.

If you want to debate about the absorption rate, great,  get out and test
it. Or tell me someone who will.
The working definition of a Engineer is someone who will argue for a hour
over the outcome of a test that takes 10 minutes to perform.  I think that's
becoming obvious and relevant in science also.

I have a ton of respect for what you guys are doing and have done. But your
speaking  greek to the general public.  I in my trade also have that
problem. Its easy to get bogged down at your own level and not notice the
glassy eyes all around the room.
Right now it looks to me like the research community is being led around by
the funding nose,  with truth and reality taking the back seat.  I had all
but given up until I read some of Randy Oliver's work.  Actually someone who
is interested in the truth,  and how it actually can and does apply.   We
need a few more of him,  and a seriously talented spokesman to point out the
correct paths of research and PR.
Peter has been working hard on that, as well as a few others. I thank them
for what information I have seen and read. Unfortunately  the sky is falling
group is winning.  In so many areas.  I would like to think that most of the
serious researcher would actually like to be heard,  and not regulated to
the "I told you so" file of history.

Charles

             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html