yoon said:
 This sort of discussion, or any discussion on Bee-L for that matter, tends
to pit hobbyists against commercial operators with few sideliners thrown in
between.

Because we all share the same list you will most times (but not always) get
the opinions of the larger beekeeper. Beekeepers keeping bees for a living
see things very different as mistakes cost time and money.

Hobby is hobby. If your bees die you simply order another package. Most
hobby beekeepers only want enough honey production to provide honey for
family and friends which is all I would want if I kept a couple hives.

Sideliners are "all ears" when the larger beekeeper talks (or they should
be) as many of their procedures can be applied to sideline as sideliners are
interested in the same things the commercial beekeeper is but on a smaller
scale.

Many times I would like to comment on hobby beekeepers ideas posted on the
list but know they need to go ahead and make mistakes to learn and
explaining the pro's and con's of a particular idea would take hours.

Yoon said:
 Murray's point "the might is always right" typifies such diatribe.
 When a "Big Boy" throws in his number (35,000) on the table of bee
discussion, the hobbyists wet their pants.

It is not the number of hives George I. , Allen , Mike, Murray. Chuck N.
,Charlie H. or the other large beekeepers run but the number of years they
have been keeping bees which causes people to listen.

Granted numbers of hives and trying to keep bees for a living sharpens your
skills. Many more fail than succed when attempting to keep bees for a
living.

If you ask a member of any of the bee labs they will be quick to tell you
the input of  a commercial beekeeper is neccessary at times when doing
research.

Yoon said:
 Not me.

Bob's advice to Yoon:
I always learned more by listening than I ever did by talking. Doing the
opposite of what the beekeepers which have got years of experience advise on
all issues  is a sure way to fail in my opinion .

Yoon said:
At one point, we all must "unlearn" what we have learned.

Why? There are basic truths in beekeeping.

Also:

"What we do not know is so vast that it makes what we do know seem absurd"

Yoon said:
Unlearning, I believe, is the last step in the learning process.

Unlearning seems a big waste of time. I store all beekeeping information . I
am always looking for better ways to improve my beekeeping and will change
if I see a better method. When you keep bees in different areas you might
need in the future a few of those methods Yoon says needs to be *unlearned*.

Could you give us a couple  examples of common  beekeeping methods which in
your opinion needs to be unlearned besides the use of chemicals to treat
varroa as we needed those to keep an industry alive and hives for
pollination.

I will say that the current problems in beekeeping today has caused our
researchers to look closer at the honeybee than any time in history. We are
learning many new things about pheromones and mites but none of the new
stuff has made me want to *unlearn* any of the information from years ago.

Dennis Anderson shocked the world when he reported varroa J. was really
varroa D in many parts of the world but even Dennis knew at the time that
varroa D. can be further broken down into at least five different varroa d.

Yoon said:
I too challenge you to help us by keeping a feral yard.

Most feral swarms today are swarms from beekeepers hives which have not been
taken care of in my opinion (but not all). Most are headed by old queens and
carry VD, TM , nosema and possibly honey with AFB spores and small hive
beetle (if in areas of SHB).

In my opinion the answer to our current beekeeping problems can be found in
the research being done at the USDA bee labs and at places like Ohio queen
breeders and a few of our other fine queen breeders and not feral swarms.

Enjoy your posts Yoon but they are at times a challenge to respond to. Many
ways to keep bees and what works for me may not work for you. Also it is
hard to get two beekeepers to ever agree completely on any subject.

Happy Holidays to All!

Bob

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