>> Not that you can do it, but whether it is feasible here.

> Still, it's nothing to sneeze at. I figure if it can work here in 
> Vermont, and Maine and New Hampshire, and Michigan and Virginia and 
> Oklahoma and Nebraska, then I guess it would work about anywhere.

We have real skiing here, into June and then they close the resorts, 
but not due to lack of snow.  How about Vermont? 

Enough good beekeepers have tried these ideas here that we've
established that they only work for a few until they get tired of the 
cost and the risk and either buy packages or nucs from someone 
young and eager who has not figured that out, or go south.

The guys up here are not pikers. Their operations are worth millions 
and they do their homework.  They invest heavily in any idea with 
promise and share their  experience .

> It's not really about everyone getting the same results time 
> after time.

For some of us, especially those of us who like to retire young enough 
to enjoy the proceeds, it is about winning more than losing and not 
spending out time scraping deadouts.

> It's about using what resources you have in your 
> non-productive colonies to the best end, and tailoring your 
> manipulations to your own area and beekeeping. 

As I mentioned, we have been there and done that. I have owned, 
used and sold vertical nucs. 

I tend to agree with Bob, though.  Shake the dinks out and get on 
with your life.  Silk and sows' ears come to mind.

> You certainly have a good honey flow in Alberta, could identify those
> non-producers halfway  through the main flow, and turn them into 
> nucleus colonies with suitable queens.

If you think I have not done that, you have not been listening.  I've 
had lots of vertical nucs and have friends who are working with various 
ways of maintaining stock.  The upshot is that it all goes well for a 
few years and they have too many bees, then there comes a year 
when it all collapses.  Surplus is a nuisance, but is easy to deal 
with.  A collapse can end a career.

> Do you winter doubles in Alberta? What do you think a 4 over 4 double 
> nuc box is? A double. Just because there are two separate colonies 
> doesn't mean the bees make two separate clusters. They actually make one 
> cluster with the divider between them...two semicircles if you will. If 
> you can winter doubles you can winter these.

We have spent a lot of money as a Province on wintering and seeking 
self-sufficiency. I have worked as a Provincial wintering inspector 
during the years when we subsidized all the schemes you advocate. 
I have spent my own time and money proving you wrong.

You are wrong, but just right enough to be a tease and really expensive
for most of us.
  
These ideas work for enough people enough of the time that nobody 
can say say it does not work, but it does not work not consistently 
enough to pay the bills in most of Alberta.

Our industry was founded by beekeepers from down in your latitudes -- 
Ontario and California -- who brought package bees here each year and 
made out like bandits.  When the border was closed, we spent millions
of dollars on self-sufficiency, but never fully recovered.

A few get by, but most just go south for winter or buy packages.  

The south can make bees and the north can make honey.  That is called 
natural advantage and it worked for a long time.  It works in the US, right 
up to the 49th. You are far south of that, so how would you know?

Personally, early on in my  career,  I lost more money believing stuff 
written from New York and Vermont than I would care to confess.

Pray for Global Warming.


Allen Dick, RR#1 Swalwell, Alberta, Canada  T0M 1Y0
51°33'39.64"N  113°18'52.45"W
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/

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