a couple of Bill T snips followed > by my comments.. 

Bee Informed stats on winter kill and the large numbers of hobby beekeeper
kills vs Commercial. So you have hobby hives croaking all over the
landscape at rates around 50% and commercial operators (much fewer)
isolated to small pockets with kills around 15%. For example, the nearest
commercial operator to me is a good hour away while in the same area there
are hundreds of hobby beekeepers. Just blocks from me there are at least 8
or more beekeepers some who are brand new and some who do not treat. Which
is why I now have to treat three times a year.

> yes there seem to be more than enough cognitive dissonance to spread on everyone's morning toast. not certain why this would suggest anyone 'won' an argument?  But then again if you measure such conversations only in terms of who wins or who loses then you have already lost.  your 'logic' here is a bit stretched to say the least.  just because an operation business address may be 100 miles away does not necessarily mean they do not have hives setting pretty close by (although for most commercial folks not placed in a location where most folks would notice).  personally I don't pay much attention to survey.  at best they are simply an accumulation of data... and there may NOT be 'alternative facts' but certainly there are numerous ways to generate 'alternative analysis of the facts'.   The real concern in such survey for me is 'observer reliability'... so if I have no confidence in the observer why would I have any confidence in the accumulated data from a survey?  Personally it seem reasonable to me that most folks that have been at this awhile can give you a pretty accurate reason why a hive died... those that are new to all this (and this definitiely includes both hobby folks and some commercial operations) my confidence level goes to near zero. 

Who here on the list  "put on blinders" and stated that "varroa is the only
reason hives now die" ? 

>well Bill to cut straight to the chase here you were the one that mentioned hives dying in your neighborhood and knee jerked to the conclusion that they died from varroa.

> ps... as far as I can tell historically when tracheal mites was the new problem on the block all hives died from tracheal mite... and when absconding disease was the faddish word in the journals all hive that disappeared did so from absconding disease.  perhaps I am the only one here that see this very much human pattern in how folks think (or not think as it is... but mentally drifts towards some handy explanation)?

Gene in central Texas

Gene

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