Robin Wells <[log in to unmask]> wrote
 
>> I used to use the frame grip to get the first, outermost frame out.  That
>> was when I had 10 frames/brood chamber.  Now that I've switched to 9 I
>> sometimes don't even need a hive tool to remove brood frames.  Or, at least
>> the first frame comes out much more readily.  FWIW
 
>Speaking of which, what are the advantages or disadvantages of 9 frames in
>the brood chambers?
 
and Doug Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote
 
>I use 9 frames for both brood and honey. This seems to work well. I found
>that using 10 frames made it too difficult to work the bees without
>rolling them up. However I am a rank novice, some of the experts comments
>should be interesting.
 
 
First: frame grips. My first sight of these was as community beekeeper on Gt
Barrier Is (near Auckland, NZ), a blessed haven with no AFB (although some
idiot down-island did bring infected bees over once - fortunately it was
stamped out quickly). A visiting beekeeper had the grips with him so I tried
them out (yes, being aware of disease possibilities!). Brilliant!! They
enabled me to use one hand for manipulating the frame, made lifting each
frame out easier (and gave better leverage: this didn't break frames worth
keeping), meant I didn't get fingers in the top of the comb while
manipulating frames one-handed, etc. While at university I only have two
hives, to keep my hand in, but I'd buy a grip whenever I have more hives.
Let's face it: it's a personal choice. Perhaps if I was brave enough not to
wear gloves, frame grips would be less useful. The community's bees needed
to be fairly aggressive so I never went gloveless (gentler strains just died
out - believe me, I introduced a few new mated queens but ended up having to
raise my own).
 
Nine frames: in 12 years, none of my queens have ever laid in the outside
two frames. By only having 9 frames in the brood chamber, she only gets 7 to
lay in. I'd favour putting in 11 but each frame needs to be narrower, which
makes them less compatible with self-spacing 10-frame honey supers. Besides,
9 frames must be manually spaced. If brood boxes need shifting, 9 frames
tend to rattle around, potentially killing the queen.  If frames are not
forced in between others, "rolling" of bees shouldn't be a problem (ie put
the outermost frame back last after the others have been pushed together).
If bees are in the way, smoke 'em down. Again, this is personal opinion and
no doubt others swear by 9-frame brood chambers...
 
For my supers, I began using Manley frames (the frames that hold 10
sections). I simply drill appropriate holes for 4 wires, shave half a
beespace off either side of the topbar to allow vertical bee travel, and
treat them like a normal frame. Seven leave a space for one Hoffman frame,
or extra work space. With new foundation, it is wise to interleave them with
capped frames (Hoffman or Manley) until the comb is built, as burr comb
bridges or uneven faces may be a problem. Only put them on during a strong
honey flow so the bees build them out quickly. I've done this for years, and
you get a *lot* of honey for each sheet of foundation!! Heavy foundation is
best (I'm going to make a foundation mould one of thse days so I can have
really thick foundation using reclaimed wax). This is a useful method for
extraction systems other than centrifuge, also. I've not been scientific
about it, but it seems (from memory) that queens have not laid in them -
cells too deep?
 
 
Palmerston North,
New Zealand.
(Opinions given not necessarily those of Massey University)