Hello Richard & All,


Richard said:
> It was my understanding that, in fact the pesticide used was in the 
> treated seed coating to prevent weevil damage that will occur when  ALL 
> corn is stored.

The above is what many farmers believe and may in fact be part of the issue 
but the neonicotinoids are on the seed Richard mainly as a systemic 
pesticide. The neonicotinoids are for the most part a replacement for the 
organophosphates being phased out.

If you can get hold of the April 2008 issue of the American Bee Journal you 
can read an entry level introduction to the neonicotinoids.

"Neonicotinoids-More Questions Than Answers" ( ABJ vol.146 No.4 pg.337)

I explain in the article about one of the first systemic pesticides named 
Timek. Simply spread the granules on the ground around a oraange tree and 
all parts of the tree kill chewing insects. Of course the product was later 
pulled from orange use after found in oranges/ orange juice, nectar/ pollen 
and in ground water. Temick still has registration in the U.S. (on a very 
limited scale) but has been banned in the U.K..

The only factor about the neonicotinoids which makes sense is that they are 
safer for humans than the  most (but not all) organophosphate products.

I think one can sum up new neonicotinoids by saying like some drugs they 
have good qualities but have got some powerful side effects (of which we 
really have no idea what might be long term). Also ways to reverse any long 
term effects.


  I hate to question folks that probably have a
> whole lot more information than I do, but I'd find it difficult to  get a 
> neonictinoid into a plant from the contents of a seed.

Smart move! We learn from asking questions! Busy time for me and days behind 
in emails and phone calls but will try to answer as will Jim,Peter, Brian 
and others which understand about the neonicotinoids. We all do not agree 
completely about the products but I think we do on the basics of systemic 
pesticides.

The neonicotinoids are coated on the seed and then become systemic and then 
the neonicotinoid pesticide can be found later in ALL parts of the plant.


 Now
> maybe a bug killing gene for a GMO product, that is not a neonic.

correct!

> After a many weeks of growth, I would imagine that if left unsprayed  they 
> plant coming from a seed with such a coating is not much of a  threat, if 
> at all.

Not so. Once the neonicotinoid is in the plant material the plant is 
protected and the neonicotinoid can be found in the soil as is the case with 
potaotoes the next year and I have heard even the third year.
>
> I've seen what weevils can do to corn after harvest if stored too  long 
> and you need to prevent it from happening to a seed crop for  certain.

Surely you realize there are and always has been other products you can use 
besides the neonicotinoids for seed protection. The neonicotinoids are on 
corn seed to do what they were designed to do. Make all parts of the plant 
posien to insects!

>
> So my question is...how would I know the difference?

At first we found labels which said treated with imidacloprid but after 
France now all the tags say is pesticide treated seed.

.you'd be surprised how many people do not understand the
> difference).

I grew up with "Dent" corn. ears 18 in. long and twelve ft. plants. The only 
real issue with the early dent in my opinion was wind damage. Always had 
areas when tall blown over.
We ALWAYS saved the seed. Never bought any seed! Never used herbicides but 
pulled  a cultivator through until the corn was higher than weeds. In my 
early days of beekeeping I tried to place bees next to these farmers. Those 
were the best locations for bees to be found in many areas.

One summer  I went to work for my uncle selling hybrid corn seed. I carried 
the bags from the truck to the farmers pickups. Not many buyers at first but 
eventually the hybrid seed took over the market. The hybrid seed was free at 
first but now the largest expense (with the chems) involved in growing corn. 
My uncle used to call the farmers suckers for a sales pitch. My uncle used 
to even like to tell the "farmers daughters jokes" to the farmers!( and 
would slip a wink at me!)

I come from a family of farmers but my uncle only married into the family. 
He was retired military but was a salesman!

bob

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