BEE-L Archives

Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology

BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Karen Oland <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:52:47 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (81 lines)
-----Original Message-----
-From: Donald Franson
-
-Non evolution becomes evolution when it changes the kind of species it was
-such as from bird to cat.

Donald,

You should really check out the article at
http://www.brown.edu/Administration/Brown_Alumni_Magazine/00/11-99/features/
darwin.html.  This is an extremely well-written explanation of why evolution
as SCIENCE does not in any way conflict with religion.  Many clergy (and lay
people as a result) confuse evolution with true atheism (which does not
require the person believe in evolution either).  That then pits them
against the continuing body of knowledge that man is accumulating, resulting
in an internal conflict between what the church teaches and what science
teaches and their own eyes can observe.

-Variation, such as from coyote to beagle (They are both dogs just different
-varities) is often called evolution but it is not truly evolution.

Since species differientiation is a classification arbitrarily assigned by
man, the coyote and beagle example really does not hold to refute evolution.
At the present time, they are not both "dogs", as defined by man, but if you
go far enough back in time, they did descend from a single species.  So,
since you say they never change from what they were then, yes they are still
the "same"  - creatures descended from a common ancestor. But the changes in
different populations of the descendants of that ancestral species are what
scientists call evolution, resulting in what man arbitrarily now calls two
different species. (And that arbitrariness is more evident in the plant
world, where over the last 100 years, many plants have been re-classified,
as our ability to determine their relationships has improved).

A single mite does not evolve.  But, it's progeny will have different
characteristics,  some of which may give it an advantage over others of it's
kind.  If enough of these changes occur, we then call it a new species,
simply because MAN uses that to define the difference between species .. a
certain degree of difference beteween populations.  This new species would
still have much in common with its most closely related "relatives" (other
mites), and less and less in common with other species that are less closely
related.

-check out your kids school books and you will see that they teach our kids
-that man evolved from primordial slime millions of years ago and that in
-evolutionary changes the changes are for the better

One important point -- evolution does not have the lesson that all changes
are for the better.  Many lead to dead ends, with those species unable to
compete in a changing world (either due to climate changes or due to
competition from new predators or parasites).  What evolution does teach is
that in the end, some species will evolve to take advantage of every
ecological niche.  For example -- if the honey bee were to perish due to
mite infestation (pick a mite here or due to the combination), then other
pollinators would take their place.  For any plant that some other
pollinator does not exists or cannot adapt to, that plant also perishes.
Other plants, with less competitors, then have the chance to take over those
niches, and so on.  That, simply put is evolution.

- however all atempts to
-support this theory have been proven wrong

Scientific proofs can be confusing to some. Basically, you look for anything
that contradicts (refutes) your theory.  So long as nothing is found, the
theory stands.  So, with evolution as a theory, the current status is that
nothing to refute it has already been found.  By the same rules, religion in
general, defined as a belief in a "creator" that guided the creation of our
physical world as we know it, also has never been refuted.  Some particular
religious beliefs  are contradicted (the earth as only 6,000 years old,
evolution does not occur, the earth is at the center of the universe,  the
earth is flat and many others as you include more religions that have
existed over time).  By the same token, the existence of a creator cannot be
"proven" as in showing it absolutely does exist (at least, not in this
world).

-Here is a site that you might find interesting and they offer 1/2 million
-dollars if you can give proof of evolution.

See above for why this is such a risk-free offer to make.  When you define
your rules of proof so that they cannot be satisfied by the field in which
you are challenging, you are not risking your money.

ATOM RSS1 RSS2