>
> >A couple points which California beeks never talk about.
>
> I'm always surprised, Bob, when you post things about what California
beekeepers think or do.

>1. hives confined over winter from the Midwest are ALL winter bees and
young
bees without worn out wings (like many California hives). They hit the air
with a vengeance not seen in California wintered hives.

This is a phenomenon that we Calif beeks have observed and spoken of since I
first started pollinating almonds thirty years ago.  In fact, at the Calif
Queen Breeders meeting last week, we spoke on that very subject.
Recent research by Dr. Frank Eischen compared the difference between
colonies wintered in the mountains of Calif (where they went into winter
cluster) vs. those wintered in the Valley, which confirmed your (and our)
field observations.

.
> >I am sure Randy will provide a different opinion!
>

Don't be so sure.  I don't understand why you continue to suggest that
California beekeepers are ignorant fools.  If it is due to my postings, then
I apologize to all Calif beekeepers for misleading the List.

>
> >2. The rating system in California  is based simply on sheer numbers of
> bees. Nothing else! Not quality of the bees.
>

And your suggestion is?  Flight counts at the entrance?  Amount of pollen
collected?  Data about both of the above have been collected a number of
times, and generally correlate very well with the number of frames covered
with bees.

>
> >Bees by the pound we say . Old bees with worn wings bring the same price
> as
> young fresh young Midwest winter bees.
>

The old bees are generally covering frames of brood, which will soon emerge
and replace them.  The Midwestern "winter bees" immediately start rearing
brood, and then the population of foragers crashes temporarily as they
suddenly age, generally mid bloom.  Then those colonies surge ahead of the
valley-wintered bees.  So the amount of pollinating foragers depends upon
which portion of the bloom you measure them in.

>
> >our Australian hives
> flew and hour earlier and an hour later than our European hives. With no
> varroa or virus issues each Australian hive performed
>

I often notice that the colonies in one operation will be flying full force
in cool weather that keeps neighboring bees indoors.  Generally, it is the
darker-colored strains that do so, but can also be the Aussies (which are
bred in order to effectively work Australia's winter honey flows).

Although colony health absolutely affects the amount of foraging
(virus-laden colonies cannot muster a field force--see my Fat Bees 2
article), breeding for working in cool weather can make a huge difference.

Another thing that greatly affects cool-weather foraging is the location of
the cluster.  If the cluster is in the top box of a double, they tend not to
fly in cool weather, unless they have a top entrance.  The foragers appear
to be loathe to break cluster and work their way down through the cool empty
combs below in order to reach the hive entrance.

>
>  >Frank Eischen did a study putting a package against a full size hive.
> Apples
> to oranges? Still the Australian package brought in the most pollen *at the
> start*. As the brood emerged the U.S. full size hive took the lead. Why
> wouldn't it?
> >Why would you even do such a study? Hmmm.
>

Maybe to find out answers?  So that one can make decisions based upon fact,
rather than conjecture?

>Some of the best out of state bees come from Texas. those bees are still
> today on flows (while in California the bees diet is bathtub pollen sub and
> HFCS in many cases.
>

Also, those coming from the California foothills (personal experience),
where they have had two complete brood cycles prior to almond bloom, and are
working alder pollen and minor nectar flow.

>
> >This post was so much fun!


Sorry to disappoint if you were looking for an argument.  Your observations
have long been well-discussed by California beekeepers.

Randy Oliver

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