> >I have said ( in archives of BEe-L) that the CCD team should have been
> looking at what the successful beekeepers were doing instead of spending
> thousands of hours pouring through CCD deadouts.


In actuality, one should look at both, otherwise, one cannot tell what the
differences are!  It's the differences that we are interested in.

>
>
> >Get your bees tested. then start correcting the problems the testing
> shows. Make varroa control your number one issue. Get rid of contaminated
> comb.
>

Bob, I'm in agreement with you on these points.  However, I do feel that
there is indeed a new pathogen issue.
I've gotten a flurry of off-list responses to my question from lurkers.
Here is a bit of one:

" I was lurking on Bee-l saw the posts on bees crashing. Up until two weeks
ago I would have said my bees were the best in years. 5 rounds of patties
and syrup, 1000"s of queens throughout the year from 5 different breeders
and three mite treatments. well today I was out checking weight and popping
lids in 2 yards-- I found 50% colonies no bees full of stores, 25% 50 bees
and a queen( half chilled in the last 2 days), and 25% 2-8 frames. I take
offense at [those who claim] claim its "box moving, management, health and
pest control" issues. I don't think it's the usual suspects. In talking to
Eric Mussen today he was wondering if with the bees slowed metabolism that
they can't break down the pesticides in their stores ( work done at the
Tucson Bee lab). That was one of his thoughts that caught my attention. The
bees in So Cal were its warm look great in the valley not so good its cold!"

I written previously about the correlation between the first cold event and
colony collapses (check my "Old Bees, Cold Bees" article)--of both recent
collapses and historically.  I was corresponding with a major bee broker two
days ago, and predicted that the Calif cold snap would likely suddenly
change the bee supply situation.

>In speaking with the owners many times the first concern in these large
operations is hive movement. One outfit said his hives are only seriously
looked at once a year. Banded the whole season.

Sounds like suicide to me!  Bees coming out of almonds need to have
something done about mites prior to putting on the summer honey supers.

Re mite management, I'm in agreement that it is generally best to keep mites
at low levels.  However, there are a few items of interest that I'd like to
share.

1.  I've recently been two two provinces in Canada, and spoken at length
with those in charge of queen evaluation programs.  Both found that colony
survival and production was not necessarily linked to the lowest mite
levels.  Some stocks of bees can apparently tolerate higher levels of
mites.  There is some evidence that this is linked to virus resistance.

2.  A very recent study from England found that winter mortality there was
strongly linked to DWV, regardless of the mite levels.  In my mind, DWV has
evolved to a new level, in which it no longer necessarily needs the mite in
order to cause colony collapse.  Highfield (2009) Deformed wing virus
implicated in over-wintering honeybee colony losses. App. Env. Micro.

3.  One of the most surprising findings in CCD research was that colony
collapse was negatively correlated with the level of coumaphos in combs!
(That means that the less coumaphos, the more likely the colony was to
collapse).  Very recent research by Dr Maryann Frazier found that when bees
were fed a cocktail of pesticides, the presence of coumaphos appeared to
make the cocktail less toxic!  This is exactly counterintuitive, which makes
me very cautious about making any firm pronouncements.  I'm not suggesting
to use coumaphos in your colonies, folks, it is clearly toxic to brood and
queens!  I'm just saying that things are stranger than you would expect.

>New yet to be found pathogen is starting to fall on deaf ears.

IMHO, Bob, never a good idea to plug one's ears!  To quote Hamlet, "There
are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Bob, please realize that by the time research makes it to the popular
journals or is presented at conventions, surprising findings are often
bandied around by researchers for a year or more before they dare announce
them to the public.  Just because you have not heard about something
(remember your statement a couple of months ago that researchers disappeared
when you wanted to ask them questions?), doesn't mean that considerable
research hasn't been done on the subject--perhaps a subject that wouldn't
occur to you in your wildest imagination!

Bob, as long as you continue to diss the bee scientists, I'm afraid that you
may unfortunately be working with dated information.  A few years ago, who
would have dreamt about Cytochrome P450 interactions, bee/virus chimeras, or
epigenetic transgenerational immune activation, to name a few of the current
hot topics in bee science?

Randy Oliver
Not pretending that I know the answers!

             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html

Access BEE-L directly at:
http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A0=BEE-L