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Subject:
From:
Bob Harrison <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sun, 16 Jun 2002 23:57:45 -0500
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Hello Blane and All,
Sorry to draw my friend Blane into this discussion as Blane has a reputation
to uphold.

Blane wrote;
> First I want to say Bob should be saying capensis or capensis-like
> traits not genes ( fine distinction but the researchers were looking at
> traits - behaviors - of the bees in AZ).

To build on the excellent point Blane made researchers I believe were not
and are not looking deep enough for the answers and they may never will .

I believe that through dna we might be able to take the mystery out of Dees
bees.

Blane wrote:
The traits reported were small
> dark bees that invade other honey bee colonies and disrupt the colony by
becoming pseudo-queens and the colonies becoming african or dwindling.

Dee says these were pictures of her bees Dr. Hoffman was using?

Dr. Hoffman says real problem for migratory beekeepers and Dee says  a trait
she breeds for.

I will let the list decide.


Blane wrote:
> Hoffman showed pictures of the black pseudo-queens and of colonies being
invaded and taken over.

If these problem pictures were from Dee's bees from 1991 (as she posted in
her post) then at what stage are these bees at today as far as pseudo-queens
go.  Am I looking at things wrong and the problem with the feral colonies
Hoffman is seeing today is coming from Dee's bees?

Dr. Hoffman did not give me the impression we were talking about a problem
of 1991 but rather that this was a serious problem going on in Arizona today
(2002) as she was reporting on the results of ongoing USDA research.

Blane wrote:
Yes the talk
> quickly brought to mind the whole capensis mess in South Africa.

I got the same point from the talk. We are in complete agreement.

Blane wrote which has not been answered:

> Now I do have a question about this matter.  Is the observed set of
> behaviors both in South Africa and in Arizona USA due to cape honey bee >
traits or is it something that goes along with the thelytoky trait?  If  you
select any given population of honey bees for thelytoky do you end  up with
this nest invasion and take over charactistic as well?  If that  is the case
you don't need capensis genes being introduced to end up  with capensis-like
behavior.

Sorry I had to leave the whole paragraph but afraid to remove any part  so
we can all be on the same page. From my research on everything I could find
about the cape bee the answer would be as I posted originally in my quote
from "the Hive and the honey bee"

In short  capensis has in its genes the genes to create a bee with the
presence of large numbers of ovarioles in the ovaries of worker bees and
WELL developed spermatheca (Anderson 1961).

You do not get the same type behavior  from scuts  *simply* because scuts do
not have large numbers of ovarioles and well developed spermatheca unless
they possess  genes for those  traits  in my opinion (and several others not
wanting to come forward).

I also believe as do many researchers  that capensis  has   stronger
pheromones than other mellifera which aids the pseudo-queens .

Thelytoky experiments have been done and could be cited but results were
dismal compared to  capensis. Laying workers were produced but most of the
eggs  did not  produce fertile eggs but in some instances  a few fertile
eggs were produced.  Queens were raised in a few instances  but the
pseudo-queen behavior was not observed in the study I read. I can find the
study but  would take some looking. Old ABJ article of 15-20 years ago.

The make up of capensis with those ovaries and spermatheca are such that
laying workers are found in most hives of capensis .

I have tried to contact Wyatt Mangum about the cape bee as Wyatt has done a
recent  article in ABJ on his  recent  observations on the cape bee in South
Africa. He has not returned my email although his email address is posted
with each article. If you are  reading this post Wyatt believe me when I say
I most likely would not get involved either.  I will however be in the front
row when you give your talk at the Kansas Honey producers meeting in
October!  Talk to you then after your talk in the answer part.
Sincerely,
Bob Harrison

Ps. Willing to take the discussion further if the discussion  remains civil.
I am not worried about my reputation!

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