>> I wrote- those supers are not put on until a set period expires after 
>> any treatments are done to a colony.  most are fall treatments and 
>> are isolated to deeps,
>
Ari Seppälä wrote:
>  If bees are treated with things like fluvalinates or antibitics these 
> will get easily  into the wax of the supers ( fluvalinates) and honey
> (antibiotics) even in cases when supers are not on during medications. 
> The supers get these residues by the bees. (snip)
>
> The Danes had a nice stude a few years back They coloured winter feed 
> sugar at fall green with a food grade dye. (snip)
>
> Also some part of wax is taken from below and mixed into cappings and 
> walls in  new boxes. (snip)
>
> It is very good practice treating only when supers are not on. It will 
> reduce dramatically the residues in supers. But it is an illusion to 
> think that this will mean 0 ppm residues in wax and honey of supers. 
> Bees use all that they have and mix it all the time with what is 
> coming in. Remember the studies with radioactive markers. After 
> feeding only few bees almost all bees had the marker into them after 
> only few hours. (snip)
>
> These abowe are among the reasons that state in Finland that bee hives 
> treted with antibiotics ( only tetracyclines allowed) can not be 
> harvested for the honey collected within next 100 days. 
First, it is always great to hear form you. Second, I apologize to the 
moderators for the long quote.

I have no problem with your comments on wax since I agree with them, but 
the issue is honey. We both say the same thing about treating with no 
supers on and you note, as do I, that there is a time interval before 
supers can be put on.

The problem with the study is the dye does not have a half life and it 
was dyed sugar syrup so went directly into becoming honey. You could 
check that colony years after the test and there may still be green dye, 
especially in the end frames.

Some of the "chemicals" are not soluble in water or honey but they do 
end up in wax.. There they can last for a long time because they are not 
in contact with air or water. They break down quickly if exposed to air, 
water and light. Which means they would not last long in nectar or 
honey. so if the called for times were followed, the residue would be 
near zero before the supers went on.

The approved chemicals in the EU, formic and oxalic, are soluble and 
oxalic is in sugar syrup, like the dye. I am sure there is a time 
specified by Finland to allow both to dissipate, which they do, so there 
is no contamination. That has been shown in studies which measured the 
level of the formic and oxalic acids over time. They drop to normal 
honey levels.

You even allow antibiotics, but again, with a time after treatment 
before supers can be put on. In this area, I think the US time is much 
too short. I do not use them. Of all the things added to a colony when 
instructions are followed, I think antibiotics could end up in honey. 
They tend to be administered in spring while most other treatments are 
after the supers have been removed.

It all gets back to the question, is organic honey purer than off the 
shelf honey? So far the answer is no, which means all the honey 
producers are following label directions. There may be honey that is 
rejected by packers. I leave that to the commercial folks to address 
since I do not know, but until another test comes along, we have one in 
the US and one in Europe that say beekeepers are ethical and 
responsible, be they organic or non-organic. That only makes sense, 
otherwise you are out of business.

Which is my point.

Bill Truesdell
Bath, Maine

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