In a message dated 99-04-17 17:05:33 EDT, [log in to unmask] (Allen Dick)
wrote:

<< I wonder if you recall what percent of the queenless splits managed to
 raise queens, and what was the typical failure rate?  I can't recall
 myself, and that would be of considerable interest here right now.  I
 remember it was not ever very large if the splits were made on a spring
 flow, but forget the numbers.>>

    He got very good results if the weather for the mating flight was good. I
think over 90% during good weather. A week long cold or rainy spell would
give a lot of drone layers. Some would start okay, but be drone layers in a
month or two. Bad weather is unusual here by the time of the first good flow.

 << >  I still raise some this way, but I prefer to use cells.

 I gather your preference for using cells is that the time without brood is
 reduced?  In my experience it takes about 11 days to get a laying pattern
 from a ripe cell vs. 21 for a dequeened hive, and that 10 day difference
 can be important when building for a flow or pollination contract.>>

    Exactly. Although, as you point out below, not all cells are "ripe."

 <<>  there are several on a frame, I may cut one or two off and push the top
 > of the cell into a frame of brood. I've had good results that way.

 Same here.  I wonder if you worry about the age of a cell when handling
 it?  Of course, one cannot know that information when finding them in a
 hive unless they are just being sealed, or about to emerge -- or can one?
 Does it worry you at all?  I never gave it any consideration whatsoever,
 but the texts do caution about handling cells at some stages.  Naturally,
 we don't bang them around much.>>

    Gentle is the word. We don't even tip them upside down, unless they are
obviously near hatch.

 <<>  I don't automatically use cells from every colony.

 This is something I wonder about.  One of the reasons I decided to forsake
 buying queens in any large number is that I had bad wintering losses in a
 few yards and the location leads me to believe that it might be from the
 queen stock we used for splits.  Maybe they are poor winterers or maybe
 they cannot handle the tracheal mite.  Whatever the reason, I think we
 paid for this loss and there is no reason to repeat the error now that the
 losers are culled.  If we breed from good survivors, we should see
 continuing improvement. >>

    I believe that to be true. You will gradually adapt the bees to your
conditions --- and your management style.....    Also, I try not to buy from
queen breeders who treat for tracheal mite, but some will lie about it. Most
years I do introduce some new queens, just to keep from getting stagnent (or
perhaps I should say inbreeding).

    I "rejected" a colony for breeding today. They were a two story colony,
loaded with queen cells and looking real nice.  Brood pattern was very good,
no chalkbrood, lots of pollen and nectar in the brood cell corners.  But they
were savage! They backed me off four times, and that is really rare. I put on
a long sleeve shirt, and carefully tucked it in. I was wishing I had some
sleevies with me, because that's where they were heading. I also had a hole
in my veil, which normally I just don't pay much attention to, but these guys
were really good at finding it and trying to get into my ears, up my nose,
etc. Do you suppose the killer bees have arrived?  A couple cells had already
hatched and I was only able to find and kill one virgin. I  hope she had
already done in the other. I never did find the old queen, though I suspect
she was there. They probably would have hit the trees today. I destroyed 17
or 18 cells. And I made sure they were destroyed.I know I should have moved
the entire hive away from my mating yards, because they still had drones.

    I used to have a dozen or more of these snots each spring. I have made it
a point to get these requeened whenever possible, and it has been probably
three years since I've had a hive back me off. I made four single deep
colonies from this one, and gave each a mated, caged queen, plus a frame of
brood with eggs, on it, because there were no eggs or young brood. If the old
queen was still around, I hope the young one gets her.

 <<Each spring we find that only about 40% of the overwintered hives are
 splittable, and I always wonder about the rest.  I always wonder if we
 have some hives that just manage to make it through the year and winter
 nicely, without making a contribution to our income.  Pollination
 contracts make this less of a worry, though, since it is hive numbers we
 hare paid for and honey production is of less importance. >>

     I have fewer dingalings than I had a few years ago, but I still cannot
seem to get a consistant hive. No matter what we do, there are always some
drone layers, an occasional snotty one, and (too many) those that just plain
do not look good. You can make up 50 hives just as identical as you possibly
can, and 40 of those will do fine. Two to four will become drone layers
within the year, one or two will get chalkbrood, and the rest will just do
poorly and look sick compared to the others. These get requeened in the
summer (usually with a nuc) or culled in the fall. But they (dingalings)
still show up again the next year.

Dave Green   SC  USA
The Pollination Home Page   http://www.pollinator.com
The Pollination Scene   http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html

Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet  (honey & beeswax candles)
http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm