On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 03:42:21 -0500, Dave Green <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>government and grant money, coupled with the latest technology available in
>a large university (that you can't afford), and give this equipment away to
>any and all. Would this be fair?  Oh, yes, he would generously establish a
>link to your page, though.

I am NOT giving my database away. The service will be free of course.
Basically you are saying it is wrong for me to provide a free service
because it endangers yours which you INTEND to make a profit (which is not
happening yet).

I do not know who could be more generous: I said if a lot of people
objected, I could discontinue and give you what I have -- I see the
possibility decreasing since you are merely complaining and not really
interested in that. Upon approval from the university folks, and if I
insist, I am sure they do not mind me "selling" it for what I have spent on
it (so the university did not lose anything).

I feel your pain (at the prospect of losing your livelihood) and sympathize
with you, however instead of trying to make a friend you are trying to make
an enemy here.

I have made business attempt at internet before starting at MSU, believe me,
I see very little hope of making a living just to have a search engine on
bees. I have lost more than a new car on my stint there.

If your criticism is reasonable, then Bayer should not have developed
Checkmite+ because Apistan was working so well 3 years ago. And John Hogg
should not have developed the half comb because the ross-rounds are already
working well.

>I am really disappointed to hear your take on this, as a simple Ford and
>Chevy competition. It is much more like a government takeover of GM.

Gee, I am not intending to take over anything! I even offered the
possibility of giving you WHAT I HAVE in my last message.  First you said I
am giving away things free, now taking over.  These two analogies are
totally at odds with each other!

>It hurts to have Dr. Huang saunter in with nothing but criticism for my
>efforts, though he is obviously not very familiar with them,

I never criticised you or your efforts. I was merely saying the old styled
list has its drawbacks. I used one beekeeper as an example of how tedious it
is to maintain a current list. By the way, please remove Mary Folkema from
the MI list. She is now over 70 and no longer offers pollination services as
she tells me every time we meet.  Of course I saw places for improvement
that is why I started mine. If I thought yours is working perfectly well and
I start another one, then you can say I am competing.  I imagine I could
have asked you first, of course all along I thought you were doing
pollination service and the web was not where you intended to go.

>and basically tell me to get lost; he's taking over.

where and when I told you to "get lost" and I am "taking over"???? please
support your opinion with a quote, please. It is amazing how much animosity
you can see from my quite neutral (if not warm :) comments.

my last offer: SO THE BUTTOM LINE IS, if most of people think this is done
with bad faith, I can discontinue the project since it has not been
officially launched yet (or simply turn the programs to you!).

so far I counted 4:0 (not counting Zach and Dave), and 9:0 if I count those
who voted with their keyboards :)

>It hurts to see him continue
>criticisms on his database intro that have been refuted here on this list.

I have trouble understanding the above sentence. You never answered me on
this: when was your search engine started? My project was started more than
a year ago (the idea was formed in 98). I think (I might be wrong, but let
me know if I am!) google.com did not even offer private local search engines
one year ago.

>long been a supporter of Dr. Huang's efforts, and I don't think he is at
>all aware of the several links I have to his page.

Yes, I am aware of the links (if by support you mean that) and thank you.
and I had linked your page to mine on day one.

>PS:  Dr. Huang, could I get a grant from MSU-GREEEN?

You can always ask! although I think these are internal MSU money. I think
private industries can apply from USDA, NSF (both have SBIR and STTR that is
free money to develop private business) and many foundations, as long as you
have good ideas and can implement them.  You would be surprised at how small
a grant I actually got (and asked) for this project.

And Dave, you are right, I have spent less than 5% of my time on this
project and it is no big deal for me, as I said. After all, I will not get a
profit from it.  I am merely trying to help the beekeepers.

Dave, my offer is still on the table: it is much easier for me to hand over
now than later. I can enquire with university authorities about the
possibility IF YOU ARE INTERESTED.  You will need to have a PC with win95+
access+personal web server, or an NT with IIS. You will need to have direct
access to the computer (i.e. the server is local rather than in someone
else's office) if you need to do any maintaince directly on the access
database (downloading might become difficult after you have 10,000 records).

Zachary Huang
http://beebase.cyberbee.net