Bob, I hesitate to rise to your baiting. I do not live in Southern
California, but have recently visited S. Calif beekeepers, spoken to a
number of them, and was at the CSBA discussion. I do not by any means
claim to know all the facts. However, since no one from S. Calif is
posting, I'm simply passing on what I've seen and heard.
>only the feral bees you say?
>
I didn't say that. What I hear from the beekeepers that I've spoken with
is that they can get by with the first generation of open mated queens, but
the second generation is often too hot.
>
> >So the CSBA has taken a position against keeping feral bees in
>> populated areas.
>
> >All feral colonies tested or not? Sounds unfair.
>
The reason is proactive positioning. When the inevitable event happens in
which some hobbyist's hot bees sting a neighbor to death and it makes the
papers, the CSBA wants to be on record that we do not support the keeping
of Africanized bees in populated areas.
>
> >Even the hobby of which has the largest number of beekeepers?
>
Yes, the hobby beekeepers order lots of queens. Certainly not all.
>
> >Kind of painting with a broad brush are we not.
Only if you are trying to paint me into a corner.
> >Considering most hives move into the south in spring for almonds among
> hives from areas of AHB.
>
Almonds are grown north of the Tehachapi's. The Northern Calif queen
breeders place their bees locally in the North Valley--far from any
Africanization.
>
> >Stopped at the line dividing North and south California.
>
They slowed down substantially at the Tehachapi's. We don't know whether
they will spread up the Central Valley. So far, there have only been a few
finds in the southern portion of the Central Valley. I do not know whether
they have established, or whether they came with S. Cal. beekeepers moving
north to pollinate almonds. The southern part of the Central Valley
appears to be amenable to Africanized bees, so I wouldn't be surprised if
they establish there. The northern part gets too much cold rain during the
winter, which appears to limit northward movement of Africanized bees.
>
> >Brain washing is simply saying the same thing over and over till
> its believed.
>
I will not argue with an expert!
>
> >Now we are told by the California queen and package industry the northern
> half of the state is *not Africanized*?
>
I do not speak for the queen and package industry.
>
> >What proof can you provide? Has a large scale survey of those bees been
> run?
>
I'm not interested in trying to "prove" anything. As Pete says, what
matters is how hot the bees are. I don't hear complaints about Northern
Calif bees being hot. I'm not a salesperson for N. Calif queens, nor do I
advertise or want additional business. I do know that Southern Calif
beekeepers order Northern Calif queens because they are gentle.
>
>> >As evidence of the above, two weeks ago the weather finally turned cold.
>> My sons and I had to find coveralls and gloves for the first time since
>> early last spring.
>
> >The above is what you base your evidence on?
>
> And you'd prefer what? Most beekeepers are only concerned about the bees'
behavior. Northern Calif stocks are gentle, store honey, don't run on
combs, don't swarm much, and generally need mite treatment. All the above
observable traits suggest that they are not Africanized.
African genes will certainly be working their way northward, which is
probably a good thing. This process was documented a decade ago*. All
that most of us care about is whether the behavior of the bees changes.
*Hybridization between European
and African-derived honeybee populations
(Apis mellifera) at different altitudes in Perú
J. Javier G. QUEZADA-EUÁN
Apidologie 34 (2003) 217–225
--
Randy Oliver
Grass Valley, CA
www.ScientificBeekeeping.com
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