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Subject:
From:
huestis' <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:03:16 -0800
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Hi Allen,


Additionally, the test was done with AHB which is naturally smaller than
> EHB,>

reply:

The bee is small only due to its natural comb sizing.  Allen, where would a
source of 4.8- 4.9mm cell combs come from?  US and Canadian beekeepers and
European beekeepers for that matter all use foundation and at 5.2 and up.
South of the border there is much more use of natural combs without
foundation.

so I wonder if the results can be applied to EHB and if so, if the
> cells would be larger for EHB?

reply:

I don't see why not. I have colonies of carniolan type bees right now that
are on 4.8-4.9mm cell sizing(Non- Lusby stock). I know Dee suggests 4.9 top
tolerance.  Maybe as the bees move north and up in elevation the top
tolerance maybe as high as 5.05mm.  But for doing the ground work for the
average beekeeper 4.9 is a good sizing and in time one can see if it can be
stretched upwards for EHB.  Now Allen I can understand beekeepers looking
for a less labor intensive way. I started with a base of 64 colonies.  Have
suffered a 75% loss each year(with minor replacement).  On the first year of
regression the bees pulled an average of 2-3 small cell combs (4.9 top
tolerance).  No chems of any sort have been used and only FGMO for 4 yrs
prior.  Then second year shaking bees onto these bait combs and culling the
rest you gain another 6-7 combs,with each season the bees locking in better
and pulling more and more.  Very slow work as you can only accomplish what
the bees allow. Then you have to figure mite immigration from neighbors
yards ravaging colonies whom are already struggling to handle mite loads as
when regressing the mites don't really give you a break.  The shakedown
process puts enough stress as it is.  But no other method work as well and
speed is everything especially coming out of the pocketbook. Natural
selection?  Oh yes, theres that too.


> I think there is definitely something to this and that enlarged cells
> are a bad idea.  I saw that in the results of our foundation experiment
> where Pierco beat out the larger cell size foundations in first year
> production.

Notice any difference in winter clusters and spring buildup?


-- O> I'd sure like to see an experiment that proves colonies established
and
> operating on one size of cells beat out colonies on a different cell
> size, without complicating things by having too many other variables.

reply:

Me too.

Clay

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