Hello All,

Caution:
You are about to enter the no spin zone

Its OK it seems for researchers to blame all commercial beekeepers problems
on commercial beekeepers as few answer back . However when a commercial
beekeeper says "hey wait just a minute" then all of a sudden its Bob is
picking on the researchers.

The current discussion from my point of view :

what the researchers knew and when they knew it concerning comb
contamination by coumaphos & fluvalinate.

Also why not an article like the article of Reed Johnson. A serious warning
sent out about using apistan (spring) & checkmite ( fall) which many are
still doing?

Randy said:
 In fact, this past week I sent an email to Reed and
> the other pesticide researchers suggesting that they look into the
> detoxification interactions in almonds, where the bees must detoxify
> amygdalin in the pollen as well as pesticides, fungicides, and
> beekeeper-applied miticides.

I think this is nice but avoiding the issue we have been discussing.

Myself and others knew in 2004 that it is hard to keep bees on comb on which
(per label) checkmite had been used ( usually 3-4 years) following around 10
years of (per label) apistan use. We acted on the information because we
understood the science (as explained by Reed Johnson in his article).

In 1998 when checkmite ( Bayer) was being pushed in the U.S. research such
as Reed Johnson presents in his article was filtering out of Italy. By 2004
common knowledge with large beeks. Common knowledge with the USDA-ARS.

Looking for possible new issues (as in almonds) is not solving what we know
is a serious issue!

1. comb contamination from coumaphos & fluvalinate.

2. foundation wax being sold TODAY in the U.S. with such contamination.


> I've written about this very thing in ABJ.  Beekeepers don't want to hear
> it!

Unsuccessful beekeepers never want to keep pace with the industry. The gap
between the successful commercial beeks and those with thousands of hives
dying is widening.

 Bob,  on contaminated
> combs, and you had backed off on your recommendation to replace them.
> What
> has now changed your mind?

In 2004 large issues were seen on the comb. Five years later a pattern has
emerged. Beekeepers like Sutton in Frostproof , Florida had only used
checkmite one time and years have passed since its use.
He had serious issues back then and losses but now has as he says the best
bees in years.

My suggestion to day is to get comb samples done for coumaphos & fluvalinate
in comb ( random).
If low enough and you are seeing good bees than perhaps a complete comb
change is not the answer.

If you run 15000 hives in Dakota and bees are crashing and when your comb is
checked (or from your treatment records) you used fluvalinate for 10 years
followed by 3-4 with checkmite then in my opinion little need to do a comb
sample .

You need to start over with new comb. Frames only replaced with packages
worked for many but rotation ( 2-6 frames at a time marking frames) will
work but a huge amount of labor involved.

I added a top box of fully drawn super comb ( no chemicals ever) making the
colony three deeps high and then the  following spring pulled an empty box
of comb from the bottom of the hive. ( the bees had moved up leaving the
bottom box empty or a small amount of bees which you could shake out.)

All comb was changed over two seasons with little disruption to the
operation.

bob

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