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From:
James Fischer <[log in to unmask]>
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Date:
Fri, 23 May 2008 21:21:45 -0400
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Dick Allen  said:

>>> Now about what Mussen has "clearly" said, he does
>>> CLEARLY say in his newsletter...

Enough speculation and putting words in other people's
mouths.  Let's ask Eric. Here's what I asked Eric:

>> So, did you or did you not suggest that mixtures of 
>> Fumadil-B be sprayed onto bees (rather than fed) as 
>> an approach to treating one or both of the types of 
>> Nosema being found in US colonies?

His reply is below, in full, below the dashed line.  

Please note that he makes very clear:

a) That we don't even know if Nosema ceranae even 
   >>CAN<< be treated with the Fumagillin we've 
   been using for Nosema apis, regardless of how 
   it might be administered.

b) That Nosema ceranae may be having a negligible impact
   on colonies it infects, proven by the fact that some
   non-trivial number of "infected" colonies have built
   up to the point of swarming, proving that they are
   "robust", despite infection. 

c) That they STILL ARE CONDUCTING STUDIES on spray 
   applications.  There's simply no data to know one
   way or the other if spraying has any positive impact.

d) Given that they are "still conducting studies", it is 
   no surprise at all that Eric advises caveat emptor
   saying  "It is up to the consumer to determine..."
   Gee, that's not a very strong endorsement, now is it?
   It is up to us?  Gee, even though he is an expert 
   in this exact specialty?  He won't even guess for us?
   That says a lot to me.

e) That it is "difficult" for him, the go-to guy on 
   Nosema for at least the USA, perhaps the entire 
   planet, to make "'recommendations' at this point 
   in time".  Sounds like he'd rather not advocate
   spraying right now.

f) That we do not know at what levels of infection 
   treatments are necessary

g) That we do not know what (if any) treatments will 
   adequately control the pathogen.

Offhand, I'd say that these are very important things to hear. 

Much more important than assuming that he is advocating spray 
Fumagillin treatments, when he is (once again) simply repeating 
what he has heard and being very very careful to avoid advocating 
anything.



Below is his full reply. 

=================================================================

As you are aware, my advice when using any pesticide or antibiotic 
is to follow the label instructions.  (Fumagillin actually is not a 
registered product in the U.S., but it can be used under a sort of 
memorandum of understanding between the U.S. and Canadian governments.)

At this point in time, the Medivet label has special instructions for 
Spring use with /Nosema ceranae/.  They include increased dosage rates 
and smaller volumes of syrup at short time intervals compared to the way

we controlled /Nosema apis/.  Since I wrote the article, I have received

"labeling" with the verbiage quoted by Randy, below.  I have been in 
contact with the company, and they still are conducting studies with 
spray applications.  It is up to the consumer to determine how things 
are progressing in his or her colonies and to react accordingly.

If it is determined that the bees are not taking feed, then using a 
spray application will leave a lot of syrup on the top bars, where it 
eventually will evaporate or ferment, unless it is sprayed directly on 
the bees frame by frame, similar to the instructions for Sucrocide.  
The Spanish procedure puts ALL the syrup directly on the bees without 
handling the frames.

I see nothing wrong with disseminating the Spanish researchers' 
opinion that a "drench" application, directly on the bees, between the 
combs gave them the best results.  They feel that is a  necessary manner

in which to deal with the disease when the bees lose their appetites and

will not take the medicated syrup from a feeder.  Therefore, if the bees

appear not to be taking the syrup from the feeder, then a drench 
application may be necessary.


jhf > People are worried about the Nosema issue.  Some are 
jhf > willing to try anything, as the general impression 
jhf > is that nothing is working.


/Nosema ceranae/ is showing up in colonies that were treated in the 
manner consistent with the excellent control we used to get against 
/Nosema apis/.  The exact consequence of the presence of the pathogen 
has yet to be determined (some of those highly infected colonies are 
swarming) and studies on control are just getting under way.  Thus, it 
is extremely difficult to make "recommendations" at this point in time, 
since we do not know at what levels of infection treatments are 
necessary and what treatments will adequately control the pathogen.

I hope this better explains my position on the use of fumagillin in 
nosema disease control.

=================================================================

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