Dee said:
So we shook down with varroa pressure to get immediately to
a survival bee and weed out the ones that wouldn't make it.
We were told probably 90% wouldn't and yep, 90% didn't make
it through. So much for survivability in the USA of domestic
bees.

The above IS the formula for finding a survivor bee.

In the first years many could not even get 10% to survive. One reason being
reinfestation. Even if for some reason the hive was able to tolerate varroa
and keep levels low the hive could still not handle robbing worker bees
transporting huge number of mature varroa into the hive.


Reply:
Right! no parafoul. and PMS we call parafoul.

I do not keep a colony around which shows signs of PMS in a survivor
program.


I remove the colony from the program and most times treat and use for
pollination/honey production.

Horace Bell & I went through some colonies he had left alone to see if they
would survive last April in Florida. I took no queens as all had signs of
PMS.

My opinion is that the actual varroa load is not as important as is the
colonies ability to handle the secondary infections such as PMS.

I have got some Russian hives which have been left untreated for around four
years. Some carry a high mite load in fall which would need treatment by
researchers standards but NO pms. My criteria is that I do not worry about
the varroa load as long as no PMS.
I do find deformed bees and bees with wing problems at times in some of
those hives.

 My friend in the U.K. Norman Carrick says his research (former research of
Bailey ) has determined a hive can survive a high infestation of varroa as
long as the virus problem (PMS) is kept in check.

Is mite load  the best method to evaluate a hive for varroa tolerance?

The virus issue is complicated. I have seen private correspondence between
the U.S. and the U.K (Brenda Ball) on the subject. Scary stuff.

>As to where's the proof, I guess for the two of us, we just
keep going, for we must believe in what we do to go
forward, regardless of what others say.

I do not try to convince researchers of my ideas. I mainly use my
information to help my commercial beekeeper friends. They are very
interested in what I learn. The research community says "Wheres the proof".

Interesting discussion Dee!

Bob

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