> I would be interested in your experiences with stacking hives.  I
> imagine you must have tried it at some time and I would be surprised
> if a single well stocked deep super that wasn't too populous with
> old bees couldn't overwinter *sometimes* even in your area.
 
We do it all the time.  I have 400 out there now -- but as _doubles_ in
a regular four pack.  The single is on top and the added box is on
the bottom, of course.
 
> I imagine that the extra labour would be big drawback in a large
> commercial operation.  It makes the bottom hives difficult to deal
> with in the spring.
 
That's the problem.  Using the stacking idea, the _lowers_ dwindle,
and also cannot be checked for feed without unwrapping and lifting
and drifting -- and a general mess if the day is warm, or chilling
if the day is cool.
 
All in all, it is just one of those ideas that sounds great in
theory, but is a pain in practice (IMO).
 
The top hives (singles) are usually okay until Spring, but have to
be removed too early -- in order to avoid drifting, and to allow
access to the lowers.
 
I guess my whole point is that singles seem to do better set on top
of a full brood box to make a double -- and then wrapped as a
double. Or, they can be wrapped as singles.
 
In the former case, in which case, by spring the 'singles' are often
indistinguishable fom the hives that were real doubles in the late
summer.  And they require no special treatment.
 
Some fellas in Sask have been writing in ABJ about wintering singles
in four packs.  I haven't really tried wrapping singles in four
packs, since I can't see the advantage over making them into
doubles.
 
Singles in the north here require mollycoddeling and worry, since
they run out of feed so fast here (our winters are extra long) and
the exceptional ones run out of room for expansion.
 
>  But with a four pack base and wrapping as you
> do, it sure gives a lot of heat to the upper hives.
 
Maybe, but bottom heat is not the problem, really.  Besides the
bottom good hives lose the insulation that is important -- the top
insulation -- and dwindle.  Moreover they are not easily manageable.
 
> BTW, I very rarely stack a medium.  I was only making the point that
> it CAN be done.
 
It can.  A friend of mine was wintering 20? medium nucs in a big bundle.
He had 85%+ success one year -- and a mess the next.
 
> I have good success with deeps.  You probably know
> or know of Henry Pirker in the Peace River, I believe, since you
> mentioned you might try indoor wintering.
 
Yup.
 
> There is an 800 hive
> operation in Nova Scotia that overwinters in a Pirker building all
> in single deeps. They come through the winter with sufficient
> strength to be built up and rented out for blueberry pollination I
> am told.  (But I am also told that many of the hives that are rented
> out in the Maritimes SHOULDN'T be.!!)
 
Should work.  I built such a building one year (15 years ago?), and
tried it out, but I think the hives must have been poor going in. It
wasn't worth the hassle.  I must confess I had trouble keeping the
heat and air circulation right, so I can't fault the system, just my
tendency to prefer easy solutions where all efforts have the same
end result.
 
It is an ideal setup for a hobbyist, since you can really play with
the bees, though.
 
> I only stack about 20 hives (10%), at most, so you can
> see that I am choosy about what I think will survive.
 
Probably doesn't matter as much in Washington or Oregon as it does
here.  In the lower areas, moisture is likely the problem, not
warmth.
 
> P.S.  When Endel Karmo stacked hives in Nova Scotia he used solid
> dividers I believe, so moisture did not go up, but the top hives
> were NOT provided with an upper entrance.  I do however, for
> ventilation, but it is a major source of heat loss, and I might be
> able to get away without it since the hives are small and have a
> screened tray feeder with six inches of kiln dried wood shavings on
> top, which absorbs alot of moisture.
 
The trick here -- according to an old old beekeeper who showed me
some of the nicest wintering singles I have ever seen -- is to have
enough ventillation that the shavings can dry out _from the top_.
Otherwise they are no insulation at all and maintain a higher
humididty than ideal.
 
As far as bottom heat is concerned, I think that it is a red herring
in wintering.  It seems important to us, but is not of much
importance to the bees.
 
The most important heat is the heat at the *top* of the cluster when
brood rearing starts, and whether that heat is lost or conserved.
If the lid is well insulated, it acts as a mirror for the heat,
allowing the cluster to be over twice as large as it would be able to
be without.
 
Picture a basketball -- that is the Spring cluster without top
insulation.
 
With top insulation, the cluster can form below virtually the entire
lid, covering far more volume (and food, and brood).  This makes the
difference up here between subsistence and thriving.
 
Using the single on top of double, yes, you can get the single
to come thru, but often at great cost of your double.  Additionally
you lose management options.
 
If the single is any good, it can stand on its own (with good
insulation and a little ventillation).
 
Why hobble the excellent to enhance the doubtful? Or, as Peter
Drucker said, "Never put a first class resource into a second class
result".
 
FWIW
 
Regards
 
Allen
 
W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper                                         VE6CFK
RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta  Canada T0M 1Y0
Internet:[log in to unmask] & [log in to unmask]
Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/>