On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 7:22 PM, Glenn woemmel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> ​... Does that make any sense at all?
>
> ​Honestly, very little of what this author has contributed has made much
sense to me​. Early on when Glenn wrote,
"... about through my second winter. I have not treated yet. First winter,
3 hives all lived no honey, fed about a hundred pounds of sugar. Second
year, poor swarm control. Caught two swarms not from my hives. Had one hive
not swarm that I pulled two frames of brood from to tether swarms that I
caught. Ended the year with 9 hives and gave one very big swarm to a
differrent bee keeper. One of these never built up and died over winter.
Still have eight hives."
I thought, made it through the first year with no losses; no big deal.
Perhaps there was the "all new equipment" advantage, you did not say. Poor
swarm control second year gave a benefit of swarming impact on Varroa
dynamics (note I am carefully avoiding the red herring that
swarming/splitting may be construed as a treatment) and the author is
"about through" his second year and leading BEE-L down the TF rabbit hole.

I for one have been around too long to get excited about the Holy Grail
based on claims that I haven't treated in the almost two years I've been
keeping bees and my bees are still alive! Tell me your mite counts, give
some spring/fall data, do the work for at least 3 years, and consider the
impact that swarming has on Varroa population dynamics. In my book, "I've
done nothing for almost two years" is not TF beekeeping, it's DL beekeeping
(dumb luck).

I was offended by the statement, "Shouldn't the real guage be if you are
making a profit and what your profit to labor hours is." It's not about the
money, it's about the bees, or, "Take care of the bees and the dollars will
take care of themselves."

I have heard Dr. Seeley's presentation on feral bees in the Arnot forrest
many times. The take home message I got was there is nothing magic about
the bees themselves, rather it's the combination of environmental factor
that allow the bees to thrive year after year. Factors including but not
limited to, hive location, seasonal swarming, no keeper messing with them
(inspections and harvests), combs the bees made themselves vs. frames and
foundation, and most importantly low population density as opposed to
nearby neighboring colonies on hive stands or pallets. Tom made no claims
of superior genetics or magical mystical auroras in the Arnot Forrest. He
was quick to speculate were the ferals bred and moved into a commercial
apiary they would not be TF bees, rather, without treatments they would
subcomb to the pressures prevalent in a commercial setting. Dr. Seeley
further speculated that beekeepers would have better success keeping single
hives a foraging distance away from all other hives. Of course this would
be financially prohibitive, especially if profit is the motivation.

Extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence. "Because they ain't dead
yet" doesn't cut muster. This Doubting Thomas needs more time, more dues
and more evidence.

Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee!

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