On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 12:22:59 -0500, Eric Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>$20-$40/lb honey is entirely about "idealistic notions".  And it's the
>furthest thing from "sustainable."  Unfortunately, "organic" is far too
>often mostly about taking advantage of ignorant, paranoid people with too
>much money.  There might be some Robin Hood-esque allure to that if the guy
>selling the honey weren't himself a lawyer.  Reading about that kind
>of "organic" makes me want to go to Walmart and pay 99 cents for a
>genetically modified hamburger seasoned with MSG and artificial growth
>hormones and topped with "honey" sauce made of HFCS.
>
>Eric
>

So I gather you think this guy is ripping people off and making a fortune to boot? 

Do you have a concept of how food production has changed in this country in the last 3 decades?  

Do you have a concept of what the now legal definition of organic is for business? Maybe you like 
the  Walmartization of the organic industry better.......

There is a growing feeling in this country that the sorry state of our food production and 
associated obesity and diabetes etc is caused by the unrealistically low cost of food that is 
subsidized by US farm policy and a never ending corporate search for profits. 

Drawing my thoughts from Micheal Pollans new book the Omnivores Dilema there has been a 
unprecedented increase in processed corn and soybean byproducts consumption in the US diet 
since the 1970's. While companies laugh all the way to the bank my guess is 2/3 of our population 
has been hoodwinked into thinking they are getting "healthy" snacks, "natural" meat/poultry/dairy 
products that in reality contain a fraction of the nutrients they did 30 years ago. 

The fact is , is that real and or clean food is a becoming a relic of the past and as such commands 
higher prices in todays world. 

Please see a condensation of Micheal Pollans thinking published this week in the NYT's

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?
ex=1327640400&en=7c85a1c254546157&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

or search their site for the article titled Unhappy Meals

Being able to jump through the stringent hoops of Organic Certification is not easy or the list 
would be long. Go to QAI or Oregon Tilth Web pages and see their client list and see how few 
apiaries are certified organic. I hear bellyaching all around that organic honey is a joke as honey is 
such a clean product. The fact is there is a contiuum of contamination from nasty to clean in the 
US food system and its impossible for a consumer to know what happened to their food or honey 
before they consumed it. At least with organic certification people have some reasonable 
expectation that their food is on the clean end of that continuum. 

The guy in Hawaii is somewhat isolated and runs a small operation producing a creamed varietal 
honey. My own plans involve a remote area that will not yield they same honey production as an 
ag region yard. So my expenses are high and I have a product that is hard to find. Basic economics 
says it aint going to be cheap. Whats wrong with a beekeeper making a decent living? Who 
decreed we can only be low paid wages?  Geez man show me beekeeks who make what they think 
they should ? I don't get your disdain for this guy making out while doing what he loves? Is this 
not that the goal of most beekeepers who do it for a living? My guess is you're not doing bees for 
a living or you would be aware that profit is very very elusive in this business.  Here this guy is a 
successful alternative model to the highly leveraged commercial guy who's competing with 
chinese honey. 


 Citing our local Mpls newspaper the Star Tribune in an article today 

" In 2005, 1.8 million pounds of atrazine was sold in the state, said Yamin, and the chemical has 
been linked to reproductive and developmental problems in numerous animal studies. About 2.7 
million pounds of acetochlor was sold in Minnesota that year, he said, and federal officials have 
labeled it a "likely human carcinogen."

Chlorpyrifos, an insecticide that the Environmental Protection Agency banned for lawn use in 
2001, is still used on crops and has been linked to brain and nervous-system problems" 

I bet most of us American beekepeers are surrounded by a cloud of Ag chemical useage, and this 
kind of statistic did not take into account industrial or home chem emmisions either. While I'm not 
suggesting the honey we collect in this kind of environment is unsafe to eat, it does not thrill me 
to be operating an apiary or living in this kind of environment. 

My point is honey collected from a pristine environment is special and getting ever more rare. In 
ancient history the pharohs and kings/queens ate the so called "best" honey. People with money 
will gladly spend it on something they feel is special.  In addition to the notion of clean food etc 
people will also pay the money just to know they are supporting some guy who's out on a limb 
trying to do something different. 

It gets down to in the end you have some bees and you have a stack of bills to pay. Tell me please 
Eric how can I pay my bills and run a "clean" operation with minimal chems etc?  Should I go out 
on a limb trying to go organic and sell it for $3.00/pound? 

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