Pablo Massa wrote:

>Chris wrote about this quote:
>
>>When Tovey writes about music, it is from the perspective of a practicing
>>musician and composer who understands what other composers do on a very
>>practical level.
>
>That's a myth.  A composer does not always understands what does another
>composer do "on a very practical level".  Actually, it could be said that
>the worst enemies of a composer are often his own colleagues.  Check the
>judgements of Brahms on the symphonies of Bruckner, or the judgements of
>Strawinsky on the music of Berlioz.

I'll perhaps respond to earlier parts of your interesting post later,
when I have more time.  I have to point out concerning the above, that
while what you say is true, it's sometimes difficult to determine the
motivation behind one composer's condemnation of another.  Brahms partly
despised Bruckner for the kind of person he was (As Jan Swafford writes in
his biography of the former: "Part of what Brahms and others could never
quite get over was that Bruckner the composer of epic symphonies behaved,
much of the time, like a nincompoop." As evidence he relates anecdotes of
how, during the exhumation of remains of Beethoven and Schubert, Bruckner
grabbed their skulls and talked to them.) But that was a side issue with
Brahms, who mainly saw nothing of value in his music.  And you are correct
in implying that Brahms disliked Bruckner's music not simply because it
wasn't the way Brahms liked to compose--he actually appeared to believe
Bruckner incompetent.  However, as Swafford later suggests, Brahms's hatred
may have been fueled by competitive instincts.  If it's true that he had at
least a grudging respect for Wagner, it may have been because he didn't see
him as a competitor.  Wagner wrote music dramas, Brahms wrote symphonies.
End of story.  But Bruckner wanted to graft Wagner's techniques and
procedures onto the symphony.  To the competitor Brahms, that was a no-no.
It was not Brahms's finest hour.

Back to Tovey--the difference is I think that while Tovey composed, he
did not see himself as being in competition to the composers whose works
he discussed in his notes and essays.  Yet he composed enough to have an
idea of the process, and what things can come from it.  You don't go to
the symphonies of Bruckner if you need what Brahms has to offer.  The more
rabid Brahminen would have said that Brahms was all anyone needed for a
complete musical experience.

Chris Bonds