> > 85% concentration... It is handled only inside a fume hood, and the
> > wearer must have on heavy gloves, a full length plastic apron, and
> > a full face shield.
>
> That's my point Allen, if beekeeping apparel has to resort to these levels
> of dresswear ...I want no more of this hobby. As for dunking your fingers
> in the substance to establish positive/negative caustic action I am
> flabbergasted, have a gas leak - got a box of matches???

I am here to find out what has and has not been actually done and to share what
I actually know from actually doing. I'm not here to tell anyone what he or she
must or must not do, and I don't expect everyone to be able to do what I do.  I
am a practical beekeeper, and don't go around guessing any longer than I must.

Although Ellen relates what protective gear is used in the laboratory or
industrial environment handling concentrate, I think it is clear that all the
above specified dress is not necessary in every situation.  I don't know if the
battery shops have bowed to the wave of excessive fear of everything that is
going around, but the last time I noticed, fairly concentrated sulfuric acid was
being slung around somewhat casually in plastic bags and poured into batteries
without any extreme  precautions.  In days not long past, every houshold kept a
can of lye around used it freely for a number of purposes.  It's not an acid,
but the effects are similar.

As for trying the acid on skin, I've worked around acids in one form or another
all my life.  The effect of most acids is time and temperature related.  I've
had a battery explode in my face, throwing concentrated sulphuric acid on me.  I
washed it off and was fine.  (I was lucky it did not get into my eyes, and I
don't recommend the experience ).  I've used Hcl on masonary and also as a flux
for welding and soldering.  It spatters.  So, I've had acid on me before.  No
big deal.  And before feeling the formic, I did read all the warnings and the
toxicity information =very= carefully. Some acids are very toxic and have
residual efects.  Formic is not and does not. I don't find rhetoric,
hypothesizing or speculation to be any substitute for hands on (hands in?)
experience.

I can understand irrational fears of products.  Today, the precautions
prescribed for use of many common and safe products are simply ludicrous because
of opportunistic lawyers and frivolous suits brought against suppliers,
employers, governments, and anyone else who has money.  Buy a toaster or a
ladder or a toothbrush, and you are likely to waste ten minutes reading warnings
that are not necessary for a person of any experience or intelligence.
Sometimes the warnings proscribe the  common normal use of the item.  (Do not
stand on a ladder). Such ridiculous warnings obscure  any real concerns and make
it difficult for the uninitiated to know what to expect.  When a clock radio
carries as many warnings as a jug of acid, who is to know the extent of any
hazards?

What is clear and beyond dispute is that formic -- whether concentrated or
dilute -- needs respect and careful handling.  Personally I have reached the
same conclusion as most of the beekeepers and the researchers who have handled
it, and that is that formic *can* be handled safely by most adults and is a
useful control for both varroa and tracheal mites.  In some ways, formic may
actually be safer than Apistan.  And, FWIW, dilute formic already absorbed in
pads is available for those who consider beekeeping a hobby and/or doubt their
abilities to handle a common industrial chemical in the raw form.

While we are talking about harsh chemicals, I do not consider the use of formic
in the same class with the use of hot lye that is advocated by many for
'disinfecting' beekeeping equipment.  This latter practice, besides being
dangerous, is entirely gratuitous.  Formic use is beneficial.

And, yes, Ken I =do= check for gas leaks with matches.  I wouldn't recommend it
to everyone in every situation, and I usually do use a spray bottle; but I do
know when and how to use matches.  Matches are a valid and safe method -- in the
right hands at the right time. (Don't try this at home, kids).

> I want to see the demise of the chemical strips as rapidly as anyone else
> but until you can find an alternative that is as efficient, as quick and as
> safe, I will remain with them.

They will not remain "efficient, as quick and as safe" if no other unrelated
method is used in rotation.  Formic is a valid alternative.

> So my final input on this subject is to use Bayvarol, Apistan, Checkmite,
> Apivar or whatever treatment is APPROVED in your country,

Formic is APPROVED in my country.  And recommended.

> ... and trust that the scientists will soon come up with
> an environmentally friendly but efficient alternative.

I hope so, if the beekeepers don't find one first.

allen

... Opinions are not facts...

Wish me Happy Birthday
-----
See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions.
BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm
Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/
or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page.