I'll be wise enough to stay out of this messy thread.  I just will point
out:

1.  The arguments used by more than a few in my humble opinion are
NON-Musical and therefore of no interest whatsoever to this list.

2.  Please guys, do try and express yourselves more in depth than in
broadness.  And stay with the subject.

3.  I think, in the end, that, what I have gathered as being the thread
subject, is in essence an attempt to compare totally different things.
How bewildered all the subjects of this thread that have passed the revue
(Haydn, Mozart, Mendelssohn, Handel, Beethoven and so on) would have been
with this discussion is beyond believe.  It makes me think of the funny
Italian fat composer in Amadeus who dismisses anything not up his ally.
I forgot his name as I usually succeed to do with dead composers that are
of no relevance to the time I live in.

4.  Here are some proposals for sensible (Musical) threads:

   A.  Let's find out together what makes Haydn's symphonies so innovative.

   B.  Let's discuss in how far Handel's works benefit from Mozart's and
   other's additions, and to what purpose we can use them now.

   C.  Let's talk a little bit about Mozart's piano concertos.  Wealthier
   subject was never invented.

  D.  What influence do these composers of about 200 years ago have on
  contemporary music.  (My favourite).

regards, Jos
jjan @ wishmail.net