Hi Ken.

Thanks for your reply to my post.  I am saddened that you took my comments
as "ear
bashing."  I did not intend my comments to be taken personally, but
professionally.  If you set yourself up as an authority by making
recommendations you must expect that they may be called in question.

I think if you'll read my post again you will see that I quoted the U.S.
Apistan label because I don't have access to the UK label.  I also stated
that I can't speak about Bavarol because I didn't have a copy of the label.
I didn't "assume that the manufacturer's recommendations are the same for
Bayvarol as Apistan."  I plainly stated that "I suspect the UK Apistan label
will read similar to the U.S. label,"  not that they were the same.

I am well aware that many U.S. beekeepers are members of the list.  That is
why I wrote to the list to show them, and our other readers, some of the
problems in reading label text.

Our Apistan label clearly states that the chemical is to treat Varroa mites,
in bee colonies, in brood nests.  The Control statement says to "remove
honey supers before application of Apistan strips and do not replace until
the end of the control period.  Effective control may be achieved by
treating hives in the spring before the first honey flow and in the fall
after the last honey flow.  Honey supers may be replaced after strips are
removed."  These statements are evident of the intent not to use the strips
in supers, where there are no bees, and no mites.

I would need the whole text of the UK label to say for sure but I'm thinking
that if it says: "The strips should be left in the colonies for a maximum of
six weeks and then removed," it does not mean they can be used in hives (or
supers) without bees.  The intent of the label is to treat bees with mites
not combs nor moths.

I interpret Bayer's statement (if made in the form of your statement "for
the diagnosis of severe infestations the product may be used at any time) to
mean that the strips may be used in the brood nest for several days with the
use of a Varroa trap or sticky board for mite detection purposes.  That is
quite a different thing than hanging strips in empty honey supers to control
moths.  When using the strips as a detection device for two or three days I
would not expect any movement of chemical up into the honey supers.  If the
strips are in a hive with honey supers for up to 56 days (our label) I might
expect some carrying of the chemical into the honey supers by normal bee
traffic.  Our label does not allow detection with honey supers on the hive.
From a practical and biological point of view that is not the time to do
Varroa detection anyway.

I still contend Ken, that it is unwise and probably illegal even in the UK
to "suggest" or recommend the use of a chemical for other pests, or for use
in other manners than is prescribed on the label.  Here in the U.S. you are
required to be a licensed consultant to make prescriptions on the use of
chemicals and if you do not do so according to the state and federal labels
you open yourself up to litigation, fines, or the revoking of your license.

I do fully endorse your efforts to encourage beekeepers to use the products
available to them in the correct manner for mite control.  When pesticides
are available, I think it is foolish not to use them, UNLESS you can find an
integrated pest management approach that will work as well, efficiently, and
cost effectively.

I don't understand the reference to putting slides in the wrong order.  You
certainly don't mean to suggest that making such a common mistake can be
compared to making a recommendation beyond the scope of your expertise,
without any scientific reference, contrary to the label, and possibly
resulting in contaminated honey combs.

Apistan treatment timing:  Aaron Morris quotes a comment from Dave Eyre on
Aug. 23 about not opening hives in the snow to remove strips.

Our field work here in Washington State in the early days of fluvalinate
strips, and then Apistan, showed that when strips were placed in colonies in
the fall at temperatures in the low 40s F. to mid 50s F., and the
temperature stayed at that level for several days during the treatment, that
no Varroa mites fell on the sticky boards and screens we'd placed on the
bottom board.  When the ambient temperatures climbed into the mid 50s to mid
60s F. mites could be observed on the sticky boards.  This suggested to me
that colony density at low temperatures was such that the bees didn't move
around in the colony enough to transmit the chemical among their sisters.

In addition, we and commercial beekeepers noted that colonies in hives that
had been opened to receive the strips (for detection/survey purposes) in
late September to mid October, at those temperatures, reduced their colony
size.  They noted a definite shrinkage in colonies that had been surveyed
when compared with those not surveyed.  Beekeepers at first blamed the
chemical for killing their bees.  I stated that research showed little
impact on bees from the chemical and that I suspected that opening hives in
such cold weather and breaking the clusters was the cause of the shrinkage.

On the basis of repeated detection efforts in cold weather I made
recommendations to the manufacturer that the label should be changed to
include a temperature recommendation.  The current U.S. label says:  "For
best chemical distribution, use Apistan when daytime high temperatures are
at least 50 degrees F."

So I think it is important for beekeepers to take into account bee biology
and behavior as well as temperature when using any medication, miticide, or
even management strategy.  As an example:  How much damage is done to
colonies of bees leaving North or South Dakota with six inches of snow on
the ground in ambient temperatures in the mid 20s to the 30s F. for a 1300
mile trip to California, arriving in temperatures in the 60's F.?

The solution is to, as much as possible, change our management strategies so
that we can conduct treatments at times and temperatures appropriate to
normal bee colony behavior.  That might mean spring treatments in the far
north of the continent or when heavy fall nectar flows prevent treatment at
ideal temperatures.

Best regards,

James C. Bach
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