Donald Satz

>I've never had a problem with Beethoven's "quoting" from previous
>movements.  In fact, I consider it a feature of the 4th movement which adds
>to the movement's impact, almost making the movement a symphony in itself.
>
>Maybe it's because I'm not in a good mood, but I'm sick of this bashing
>of Beethoven's 9th symphony and other well-known works.

Beethoven's 9th is one of the few works of his that I can say I don't like.
It is over long IMO and that final movement is tedious.

The idea of quoting from other movements is good.  In this type of symphony
one feels that a musical journey has been undertaken.  The technique is
also used by Brahms in his 3rd.  Of course as I have previously pointed
out (though not much interest was shown) HAYDN was the first to do this.

I summarise my feelings for B's 9th thus:
nice model - boring symphony.

>It was bashed extensively about two weeks ago, and we still haven't moved
>on.  ... My comments apply generally to the overall tendency on the list to
>sometimes prefer talking badly of a work or composer instead of posting
>about works and composers who are greatly appreciated.

This of course is a re-iteration of Don's "Getting Off This Train" theme.

What is required is balance.  Balance in praise/criticism balance in
for/against particular works/composers.  Can you imagine how incredibly
dull it would be if everyone posted remarks like "Love this composer",
"great new recording" and there was no dissent?

>Just for the record, I consider Beethoven's 9th symphony the most masterful
>symphony of any time period and the 4th movement the crowning conclusion of
>this greatest symphony.

Don is entitled to his opinion of course.  But, these are remarks I would
apply to Brahms' first.  No doubt, other list members would apply them
elsewhere.

Bob Draper
Challenging Music's Paradigms
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