Subject: | |
From: | |
Reply To: | paul.courtney2 |
Date: | Sun, 25 Feb 2001 02:25:34 +0000 |
Content-Type: | text/plain |
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I agree totally with Michiel and Carl about the pot not being Spanish. I
wonder
though if the ears (found on martavans) could be covered by the cement cap.
On some of those published from the Witte Leeuw wreck of 1613 the ears are
vey small and close to the opening. However, I would not be surprised if the
form persisted in other fabrics in the same SE Asian region.
paul courtney
Leicester UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michiel Bartels" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: help with ceramic ID
> Well, this pot I'm afraid has a rather unusal shape for a Iberian amphora
of the
> 16-18th c. A flat base is pretty uncommon here, especially for this size.
The
> colour is too dark for Iberian material I think. Has the fabric any mica
in
> it???
> I agree with Paul Courtney that the provenance must be East Asia. It
indeed
> looks more like a martavan. The little 'eyes' (four or six) are missing on
the
> shoulder though, it has no obvious impressed mark and not a good glaze.
Wonder
> what the fabric is?
> As earlier said, could it be Korean or Vietnamese?
> Some nice Chinese and Vietnamese examples can be found in the Japanese
book'
> Unearthed cities' (Tokyo 1996) with a.o. the digs from Nagasaki and Tokyo.
They
> don't have exactly the same shape and decoration though.
>
> Michiel Bartels
> Amsterdam NL
>
> paul.courtney2 schreef:
>
> > The pot looks rather like the Martavan stoneware storage jars produced
in
> > China and SE Asia. The only pictures I have are of C17 examples but the
> > tradition may have continued on.
> >
> > paul courtney
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 5:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: help with ceramic ID
> >
> > > Dave:
> > >
> > > I did some archeological work in Sitka back in the early 1980's, so
spent
> > a
> > > lot of time reading up on the Russians in Alaska. Following up on Ron
> > May's
> > > observation that your jar looks like a Spanish olive jar recycled as a
> > > water jar: the Russian American Company suffered throughout its tenure
in
> > > Alaska from poor supply networks to Russia. My excavations in Sitka
> > yielded
> > > mostly British material culture, because the Russians depended heavily
on
> > > the Hudson's Bay Company for supplies. They also had some trade
agreements
> > > with the Spanish before the Mexican Revolution, and their settlement
at
> > > Fort Ross in California provided much of the foodstuffs for the
Alaskan
> > > outposts.
> > >
> > > It is very likely that your jar came to Alaska via the Russian
American
> > > Company, through their Fort Ross settlement and trade agreements with
the
> > > Spanish.
> > >
> > > Let me know if you need some specific references to follow-up. I know
> > Glenn
> > > Ferris, for instance, has done a lot of archeological work at Fort
Ross,
> > > and may be able to steer you down that path, if you like.
> > >
> > >
> > > Cathy Spude
> > > (aka Cathy Blee)
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > >
>
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