David Eyre wrote:

> Soapbox? A pulpit might be more appropiate! It must be nice to live
> in a world of absolute black and white, no half measures or if and
> what if?
When I read the Apistan label in my pulpit it was written on white paper in
black ink.  There was no gray, no half measures, ifs or what ifs.

> but in your world of B&W it would state 'leave them out'.
No, use them and take them out as instructed on the product label, even if you
need snowshoes to trek out to your hives.  Black snowshoes on white snow.

> Be honest Aaron, faced with those two choices I know which one you
> would choose. A little less pontificating and more honesty?
I pride myself on honesty.  I honestly have trekked through the snow to remove
Apistan strips when the treatment period was up.  It's not a choice of don't
use the strips and lose your bees OR use the strips, save your bees and ignore
the label.  The choice I've been "pontificating" on is, USE THE STRIPE AS
DIRECTED.

> ... long after the golden rod was gone we were finding signs of varroa still
> coming into the hives (from other collapsing hives in the area). Too many grey areas!!!!!!
Perhaps things are different with climates in Ontario with Great Lakes effect
and all, but in my parts honey supers are off by October 1.  That's the longest
I will wait.  For harvesting the fall flows, the bees could used a while longer
to cure the honey but I cannot wait any longer to use fall medications.  By
10/1 unless it's an abnormally warm autumn, the bees are reluctant to take
syrup (2:1 with Fumidil-B) and it's VERY late for Apistan.  Lateness aside,
Apistan on 10/1 comes out very near Thanksgiving weekend (last weekend in
November) and there have been times when snowshoes were required.  Regardless,
the strips come out as directed on the label.  Honestly!

James Bach's points:
> ... when strips were placed in colonies in
> the fall at temperatures in the low 40s F. to mid 50s F., ... no Varroa
> mites fell (... and ...) when the ambient temperatures climbed into the mid 50s
> to mid 60s F. mites could be observed on the sticky boards.  This suggested to me that colony
> density at low temperatures was such that the bees didn't move around in the
> colony enough to transmit the chemical among their sisters.
Agreed.  Proper placement of strips on a warm fall day when the bees cover
most if not all frames is not the same as it would be on a cool (perhaps cold)
day when the bees are clustered.  And this is where the black and white label
intsructions DO become vague.  "One strip for every five frames of bees."  I do
not have a label here so I am paraphrasing.  Frames of bees at mid-fifties is
not the same as frames of bees at low-forties.  Temperature fluctuations are
important considerations. Treatment at the times I treat must include this
beekeeper's best guess as to where my cluster will form as well as a lot of
hope and prayer that the weather will be sufficiently kind in October and
November to allow my bees to contact the strips enough to get adequate control.
Covered previously (GETPOST BEE-L 019021 021927).  Balancing fall treatments
with fall honey flow is a tough act.  This does not change that 45 days is 45
days.

> On the basis of repeated detection efforts in cold weather I made
> recommendations to the manufacturer that the label should be changed to
> include a temperature recommendation.  The current U.S. label says:  "For best
> chemical distribution, use Apistan when daytime high temperatures are at least
> 50 degrees F."
Sounds to me that the colony shrinkage can be attributed to repeated
maniplulations rather than a single exercise to remove the strips.  Warm "bee
comfortable" days in or around 10/1 are common.  It is easy to find a day when
the bees are not clustered to insert strips.  I discount breaking the cluster
is a problem at this calendar time.  Removing the strips in or around December
1 more times than not will disrupt the cluster.  However, at that time the
disruption is for a minute or two tops, and I can't say I've noticed a negative
effect in my hives in my locations.  I contend that breaking the cluster to
remove the strips is a far lesser evil than waiting until spring.  Comments?
Jerry, got any electronic hive data to help us on this one?  Is there any data
that indicates how detrimental breaking a cluster can be?

> it is important for beekeepers to take into account bee biology and
> behavior as well as temperature when using any medication, miticide, or even
> management strategy.
Agreed. I quoted this because it's a point worth repeating.

Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee!