Dave Lampson wrote:

>A brief discussion took place recently concerning the Brahms' influence,
>in particular on Schoenberg.  The cute, but uninformed, comment that he was
>the first major composer to have no influence belongs in the same category
>as similarly specious comments regarding Vivaldi's contributions, for
>example.  First, we need to examine any direct connections between Brahms
>and Schoenberg.

Wow, I must have missed that thread, or else I would have jumped in
right away.  Dave is absolutely right about Brahms being not just AN
influence, but the MAJOR influence on the second Vienna school, even
more than Wagner, IMHO; it's my experience that this view is generally
considered non-controversial.  If anyone wants to go right to the source,
take about six months, and thoroughly study Schoenberg's *Harmony*.  It's
very clear, at least to me, that his rejection of the term "non-harmonic
tones", and his view that pieces which have true organic unity have no
tones that are not "essential" (in the true meaning of the word, not in the
sense of "necessary", or "important", but rather, in terms of "essence")
both come right out of his Brahms studies, and lead directly to his 12-tone
theories.

Leslie Kinton
Piano Faculty, The Glenn Gould Professional School,
The Royal Conservatory of Music, Toronto.
Anagnoson and Kinton piano duo website: http://www.pianoduo.com