David Bringen wrote:

>>Classical is a hard sell.  It does take some time to listen and a
>>willingness to let the music talk to you, instead of passively letting it
>>bypass the ears and send shock waves directly into the skull.  But does
>>that make a "good" listener an "elitist"?

And Jon Johanning replied:

>"Elitist" means, as I understand it, someone who thinks that they belong to
>a superior class of humanity.

While I agree with your general thrust -- that CM is not elitist -- I'm not
sure that this definition is valid.  I'd call polo an elitist game, since
each player needs a stable of horses, which requires having stables and
horses, suggesting you've got buckets of money and the time to play the
game, etc.  What the players think on or off the saddle doesn't much matter
to whether or not they belong to an elite.

If classical music is widely accessible, it cannot be elitist.  Wide access
is facilitated though TV and radio, whereas I think it's arguable that
concerts and CDs do not provide widespread access.

CM will be elitist if it can't be found on the radio, which I gather is
already the case in parts of the USA, or on TV.  On this last I agree with
D Stephen Heersink's point that its "hyperkinectivity" militates against CM
-- that is, that the TV medium, among others, is not ideally suited for CM.
Even so, I can find CM on at least two TV stations (one of them, curiously,
being from the USA)

Jon Johanning goes on to say:

>Lots of Ph.  D.'s don't care for CM, and many CM
>fans don't have a lot of formal education behind them, either.

Yes!  In fact, there's nothing illogical in thinking about an illiterate
person who loves CM.  Despite the snob image it may have with many, a
passion for CM is bred through exposure, and not much more.  Given a fair
level of comfort -- something, let's never forget, that four fifths of
the human race just dreams about -- CM is not beyond most humans who enjoy
music, who don't overrate instant gratification, and who have some access
to it.  If this is really true, it can't be elitist.

>...listening to CM takes a higher level of interest in a type of music
>which is often complex, many-layered, and carefully crafted than most
>people have.

Doesn't this undermine your case about elites, JJ? What "higher"?!  CM
requires people who are patient (most of the time), since it's (often) more
complex ...maybe.  There's plenty of immediately accessible CM that doesn't
require gobs of patience, and is simply crafted or 'layered.' Also, a lot
of very careful crafting goes into all kinds of 'pop' music; let's not be
elitist by demeaning other kinds of music by suggesting they are carelessly
or even less carefully crafted.

If CM really was elitist, we wouldn't see any of it in commercial movies,
nor, as Heersink himself pointed out, in cartoons!  If a child on a
Saturday morning can dig a good dosage of CM with Betty Boop or even
Rug Rats, what could possibly be elitist about it?

Bert Bailey