Robert Baldwin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Here, here!  for the reissue and for James Tobins' comments on this
>great symphony!  I truly love this work although I'd need to think a little
>more before deciding whether it's the greatest American symphony.  Other
>favorites that immediately come to mind are Copland's "Short Symphony,"
>Randall Thompson's Symphony #2, and another Symphony #2, this one by Walter
>Piston.

Robert's comment reminded me of one of my pet mini-theories!  Of course, I
uderstand that this was a personal statement of his, and not a historical
assertion, so that what follows is not directly related to his post.

Generally speaking, I avoid referring to "the" greatest of any country.
For "great" countries, one symphony is really too hard to place above all
others.  For so-called "lesser" countries (as regards serious composers,
from here we would often tend to regard Canada, Australia or even the USA
as "lesser", not that I necessarily share this view), pointing out one
greatest symphony, or even more one greatest composer, often has the
opposite effect of the one expected.  People who know next to nothing about
symphonists from those countries will think, well, if I must waste an hour
for this musical desert, let me take *the* best.  Am I not so enthusiastic
afterwards? So it's settled, all other music from there must be of even
lesser quality, and not worthy of mention.  It seems silly, but believe me,
it happened more than once, on a country's scale, and lasted each time for
many, many years.

Well, if I was to say that Debussy is France's greatest composer, or
Beethoven Germany's most important symphonist, I would obviously express
little more than a personal feeling.  On the other hand, if I said that
Sulek was Croatia's greatest symphonist, many music-lovers (at least,
those who trust me) would take it as a historical truth.  Now I must say
that most French music-lovers or even musicians hardly know any American
symphony in some depth, much less any of the beautiful ones quoted by
Robert.  I suppose that the reverse is true to some extent.  So, although
I appreciate Jim's and Robert's comments which really are incentive to look
for Shapero's symphony once again, I am wondering -- isn't it a greatest
honour, and a more significant achievement for a composer, to be simply
hailed as one of the most talented of his/her time, anywhere? For a
musician who is among the truly great in his/her own country is most likely
to be worthy of the world's interest, would he be German, French, American,
Croatian or Lithuanian!

I'd like to have other musicians' and music-lovers' comments on this.

However, I personally like a lot of American symphonies, and I'd add
the following to the "contest" (without intending to vote at the end):
Harris's #3, Ives's #3, Sessions's #7, Carter's Symphony of three
orchestras...  As for Piston, the slow movement of #2 is deeply moving,
but maybe #4 and 6 are even more satisfactory, and have elliptic and
gripping slow movements which are quite remarkable in their own way.
Others would add Mennin's #8, Barber's #1, Schuman's #10, and why not
Still's #1, Hanson's #4, Kirchner, ...  And frankly, I rejoice that there
is no agreement on *one* best, as long as everyone is willing to try and,
if possible, love another's deeply felt preference!

(Confidentially...  I also find looking for "the" best violinist, pianist
or cellist a bit pointless...  even if I have my preferences for my own use
and for a first advice to friends!)

Best regards,

Thanh-Tam Le
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