Hi All/ Andy
 
Interesting to read about the bees for bread sort of scheme that you
read about Andy.
 
As a person who lives on a continent infested with aid agencies and
aid recievers I can say (and this is not intended to offend anyone)
that usuall the large the string of zeros in a number, the less
effective it will be.
 
In Africa, most first world countries have had some really neat
schemes to industrialize communities and teach 'useful' life skills.
We have had cases of the Norwgian government (they are very good at
hairbrainded schemes) donating lare ponds for fishkeeping/farmin in
the equatorial regions. There were also these really neat cold
storage unit - once all the norwegian engineers were gone, and had
taken their hefty danger pay with them the whole system disintegrated
under traditional african management practises (everybody take the
pretty wire and make necklaces etc) and within a year a wealthy
pseudo warlord had turned the place into a hotel with nice pools!!
 
> From:    Andy Nachbaur <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Bees for Nagorno-Karabakh (Azerbaijan)
 
>
> The cost for a one year program would be $1,000,000.US, with over half coming
> from the US government from the "Save the Children" funds which a connection I
> can not see unless the children are going to receive the honeybees and
> training? The balance of the money will come from the local non-profit Armenian
 
This is normal - remember there is a far higher chance of finding
people with an alternative reality in an aid agency.
 
> group with three local bee experts who are not named and help from the
> University of California including instructions on keeping the bees which has
> no parallel between Nagorno-Karabakh and California beekeeping or conditions?
 
This is normal aid agency stuff - it's a bit like the AID(s) to
africa in the 70's and 80's. People would say - let let 'THEM' make
cement, and give 'THEM' a cement factory, designed in Belgium or some
such place - in half a year operating at equatorial humidity the
factory collapeses. What works in the first world does not work in
the other worlds - otherwise chance are they might be able to support
themselves.
 
> Beekeeping never has been a main source of farm income for the population but
> at one time they did have about 3,500 hives which only produced 30 tons of
> honey in a normal year and much less in others. Hardly enough to provide honey
 
I am sure the mountains are overgrazed by goats - not ideal honey
producing conditions. Probably these figures are from long before
desperation set in, so the available vegetation is probably much less
- much of it probably having been used to keep houses warm.
 
> will be expected to give 10% of the finished product to the poor may exceed the
> real profit from the beekeepers labor and expense.
 
Hee - hee! Again, refer to previous clause about where aid agencies
store their reality. (Microsoft Reality version 5.0 - tends to crash
unexpectedly in cases where needed)
 
> gone. Do you think this is a viable program or could big money like this be
> used in other ways that would help many more people if it not used to buy more
> guns and ammunition anyway? Today a million bucks would buy a lot of honey from
 
If the money is going to train WOMEN then I am behing it - in any
poor area men are a waste of time. Women need to fuel their kids.
They will do anything. Men when they are poor tend to kill each other
and drink fermented products - which should not have been fermented
and should instead have been fed to the kids. Also when they drink
the fermented products they tend to increase the number of kids
around. If one gives the money to women, they don't have kids,
because they have less need for the men and the whole situation
improves.
 
> You can rest assured that what ever we say or think is not going to change
> anything but it would be interesting to look back at it in the next century to
> see if a cottage bee industry still exists in Nagorno-Karabakh, if it is still
> around then. I hope it does and is producing much honey and you all can call me
 
I personally hope this succeeds - just so it can destroy my jaded
view of human nature. Even if one person becomes a nutty bee head it
may be worth it.
 
> the OLd Cynic Drone who would question the honorable intentions of our US
> government and some good local people trying to help those I think would rather
> fight then help themselves including their own children.
 
I think that this is a great example though of the US doing something
constructive - much better than the military support to neighbouring
contries that probably created the problem anyhow. (interestingly
enough, during the cold war, most 'aid' to africa from the US and the
USSR consisted of weaponry. If a millionth of that had been spent on
beekeeping development, and only one out of every 100 potential
beekeepers stuck to their guns - oops bad choice of words!! - , we
would be much better of.)
 
AID(S) - Aquired Institutionalised Dysfuntion (Syndrome)
 
Keep well
 
Garth
Garth Cambray           Camdini Apiaries
15 Park Road
Grahamstown             Apis mellifera capensis
6139 South Africa
 
Time = Honey